Do you think recreational boats should be licensed?

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

I disagree. It is about taking even more constitutional right away. And if you're so concerned for your safety on the water yo have many choices. One is to boat in the jurisdiction which already requires such licensing. Another is not to boat if the presence of unlicensed boaters makes you so concenred. Still another is to sue the bejesus out of anyone who damaged your property or injured you due to their lack of training. If you fear to engage in any activity for any reason you have the perfect right not to engage in such a feared activity. But your fears, wheather real or imagined, give you absolutely no right to trample upon the rights of others engaging in that activity.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by Tayana42

California has passed a boater testing requirement that phases in over absurdly many years based on date of birth. I'm 66 and will never have to pass it. One of the interesting exceptions in the law is rental boats are exempt. Now does that make sense? The people with the least knowledge and experience can't be expected to know how to safely operate a boat so let's not require them to know anything but let's take their money and turn them loose with a jet ski or waterborne sport car.

Yes, I think licenses for boat operators should be required. More importantly, safe boating behavior should be enforced.


S/V B'Shert

And, stupidly, Hawaii has passed nearly the same law except the hp limit is 10 and everyone needs to have the very minimal safety course. Again, those who rent a PWC don't need to pass the safety course in that the rental agent is responsible for training them!!! Sure. A former PWC rental owner is in charge of Hawaii's Boating. This state has to be the most stupid about boating.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by first wind

I agree with this somewhat but not totally. Everytime I pay taxes, renew a registration or relicense a vehicle or renew my driver's license I am reminded of how much freedom we have actually lost. A gun requires a background check but there is no background check to drive a 4000 lb vehicle down the road at 70 or plus. Licensing doesn't make you a better driver. A safety course doesn't make you a safer driver or boater it just makes you more aware of what the laws are.

I think a minimal safe boating course like the USCG Aux course is a great idea and should be a requirement to operate a boat but I don't think having the feds or state issue a license should be required.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

I agree with this somewhat but not totally. Everytime I pay taxes, renew a registration or relicense a vehicle or renew my driver's license I am reminded of how much freedom we have actually lost. A gun requires a background check but there is no background check to drive a 4000 lb vehicle down the road at 70 or plus. Licensing doesn't make you a better driver. A safety course doesn't make you a safer driver or boater it just makes you more aware of what the laws are.

I think a minimal safe boating course like the USCG Aux course is a great idea and should be a requirement to operate a boat but I don't think having the feds or state issue a license should be required.

ah, but without licensing, how do you ensure that a person has met the requirement?

if you only look at the effectiveness of mandatory education, and not the issue of more government regulation, it should be noted that going to school is a mandatory requirement in the US. however, the inadiquacies of the US school system aside, look how many people graduate from highschool, passing all the required tests and having taken all of the required classes, without the slightest idea how to do basic math, how to form a proper sentence, or any knowledge of their own national history.

even when i was in school, back when America's school system wasn't the bottom of the barrel of the developed world, loads of people raduated from the same school system that i did with only the barest education....and many of those went on to college!

obviously, you can only educate someone who wants to be educated and mandating education will not ensure an educated public.

no matter what you do, people will always die. there will always be injuries and accidents. there will always be careless buttholes. people will always make mistakes. that's life.

also, if you think all items that can kill or injure people should require registration to own or use, you are going to need a lot of registrations. pretty much anything can be used to kill, by accident or otherwise. as i'm always telling my students (i teach martial arts), almost everything can be a weapon. a spoon can be used to kill a man and chop sticks are a great weapon.

[jkindredpdx]

Speaking of our recently failed education system, Many allude to the intentions of our founding fathers as if "they" were of one mind. There was adamant debate regarding how much federal government was right and the constitution is a document of compromise not perfect commandments from heaven.

Some argue against enforced education, but seem to be the first to rant about fools ignorant of Radio protocol, rules of the road, navigation, etc. I do not agree with laws protecting me from hurting or killing myself through foolish risk taking.

I DO, however, want people to obtain adequate education that they (or I) do not endanger innocent persons just because they/I can write a big check for a boat, car, or plane without considering the responsibility accompanying their/my purchase.


JimK

[kapnkarl]

Yes, absolutely!

[Polux]

Originally Posted by first wind

as this is America; a country that is supposed to be all about the constitution, limited government, and individual liberty; i make my judgements based on what the government was intended to be. ...
so, yeah.

....i'd say more government is a bad thing.

All democratic countries are all about constitution, limited government, individual liberty and I will add, social responsibility. US is not different.

What a government is intended to be is always a personal opinion that varies according political views and political parties.

Regarding this case it is not about more or less government but regarding what should be regulated or not, taking into account individual liberty and social responsibility.

You have an opinion about that, that's just your opinion, does not make it right or wrong. Others have equally valid opinions, as it happens not only regarding this but many other social issues.

Democracy serves for making prevail, regarding any issue, from all valid social visions and opinions the one that is more consensual, meaning the one from the majority. Again that does not make it right or wrong, just a democratic decision.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by jkindredpdx

................ I DO, however, want people to obtain adequate education that they (or I) do not endanger innocent persons just because they/I can write a big check for a boat, car, or plane without considering the responsibility accompanying their/my purchase.

That's it in a nutshell. Part of a government's responsibility is to protect its citizens. Not from themselves perhaps, but from other citizens.

[SkiprJohn]

Originally Posted by first wind

ah, but without licensing, how do you ensure that a person has met the requirement?

if you only look at the effectiveness of mandatory education, and not the issue of more government regulation, it should be noted that going to school is a mandatory requirement in the US. however, the inadiquacies of the US school system aside, look how many people graduate from highschool, passing all the required tests and having taken all of the required classes, without the slightest idea how to do basic math, how to form a proper sentence, or any knowledge of their own national history.

even when i was in school, back when America's school system wasn't the bottom of the barrel of the developed world, loads of people raduated from the same school system that i did with only the barest education....and many of those went on to college!

obviously, you can only educate someone who wants to be educated and mandating education will not ensure an educated public.

no matter what you do, people will always die. there will always be injuries and accidents. there will always be careless buttholes. people will always make mistakes. that's life.

also, if you think all items that can kill or injure people should require registration to own or use, you are going to need a lot of registrations. pretty much anything can be used to kill, by accident or otherwise. as i'm always telling my students (i teach martial arts), almost everything can be a weapon. a spoon can be used to kill a man and chop sticks are a great weapon.

I don't think all items that can kill should require registration or licensing to own or use. Kitchen knives are a more effective tool for destruction than chop sticks or spoons. Pretty much most all of us old vets have had some martial arts training. My axes, machetes and chainsaws are not registered but my 10 foot 4hp dinghy needs to be.

I do think drivers that are going opposite directions within 6 feet of one another doing 60 miles per hour need to be operating with a driver's license and have passed a test.

When someone stops you for erratic boat operation it would be just as easy to show them the card you get for passing the CG Aux course with endorsements as it would to give them a state or fed license.

Please, I don't want to debate but just want to state that I want less government control and less government registration and fewer government bureacrats overseeing what I do. I don't want to have to give this state more money that goes into a general fund and disappears and doesn't help boaters in order to get a license that I'll never have to show because there is not boating law enforcement.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Polux

All democratic countries are all about constitution, limited government, individual liberty and I will add, social responsibility. US is not different.

What a government is intended to be is always a personal opinion that varies according political views and political parties.

Regarding this case it is not about more or less government but regarding what should be regulated or not, taking into account individual liberty and social responsibility.

You have an opinion about that, that's just your opinion, does not make it right or wrong. Others have equally valid opinions, as it happens not only regarding this but many other social issues.

Democracy serves for making prevail, regarding any issue, from all valid social visions and opinions the one that is more consensual, meaning the one from the majority. Again that does not make it right or wrong, just a democratic decision.

You included the US in 'social responsibility'

Seriously I'm not anti the US at all, and I wish we had your president. But few in the West consider the US a Social leader. That's like suggesting Jimmy Seville was a good advocate for child protection, or Mike Tyson for domestic violence.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Seriously I'm not anti the US at all, and I wish we had your president. ......................

Take him. Please take him!

[Neeltje]

Yes, I think all recreational boats and boaters should be licensed, tested and inspected on a regular basis, if only to help protect boaters like you from people like me...

Jacques

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Take him. Please take him!

Gladly swap.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Gladly swap.

You have to take Joe Biden also. It's a package deal.

[bankerboy1]

Not to side track the tread, but kinda in the same thing. I deliver new Motorhomes from the manufacturer's to the dealerships. To deliver a 38-45' MH, I'm required to have a commercial license to drive it. Having a commercial license states that one has taken the required driving course, have the understanding of how to drive a vehicle of that size and have the required over-the-road driving hours before receiving your actual license. The consumer does not need a commercial license to drive 38+ MH. So what do you have? Someone driving a motorhome with no experiance or understanding of the operating systems or how to properly test the systems by doing a pre-trip inspection....Go figure or look out...lol

Boaters need some kinda of training or be required to take the USCG's safety course.