Do you think recreational boats should be licensed?

[Island Time O25]

Someone earlier advanced an argument that there should be licensing because other boats impact me/others, blah-blah. By that "logic" we should definitely vet and license child bearing. After all some of those crazy genes and behaviors get passed on and impact all of us one way or the other.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Every time this subject comes up, it brings the nut cases out of the woodwork. Against my constitutional rights! Won't solve anything, look at the crazy divers out there! It's just a government money grabbing scheme!, etc.

I don't see how anyone of sound mind can think that testing and licensing won't make things safer on the water. Testing and licensing won't make the waterways accident free but by having people at least exposed to the rules and requirements, most will be safer operators.

For a forum that can argue for twenty pages on the importance of knowing and following the COLREGS, I can't understand any objection to requiring other boaters to know them.

With such a reaction to criticism of gov't overreach I'm surprised you're living in US and not in N. Korea.

[Wrong]

Originally Posted by jkindredpdx

<snip>

I think it should include canoes and kayaks since the primary focus is on rules of the road, PFDs etc. Although not required, I asked my girl friend to study and take the test
also.

<snip>

Laws in general derive from the acknowlegment by members of a society they need to be protected from one another.

To the extent canoes and kayaks are incapable of injuring anyone but the occupant(s) in a capsize, it's difficult for me to imagine anything more than common sense and existing safety requirements a PFD be worn are needed. The onus to avoid swmmers and small craft and operate at a safe speed will always be the responsibility of operators controlling a vessel capable of harming others.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

With such a reaction to criticism of gov't overreach I'm surprised you're living in US and not in N. Korea.

Perhaps you can tell us what is and isn't overreach.

Should anyone be allowed to drive a car without a driver's license or is that government overreach into your right to drive?

Are DUI laws overreach because that interferes with your right to drink?

Maybe all taxes are overreach and we should have no government at all? After all, we don't need police, firefighters, USCG rescue or anything else the taxes pay for.

So please tell us where you draw the line because there is and must be a line.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

With such a reaction to criticism of gov't overreach I'm surprised you're living in US and not in N. Korea.

no gov't overreach in N Korea

[Cheechako]

So…….. your thinking is there will be less licensed boaters than unlicensed boaters? Are licensed teenage drivers who still constantly text while driving somehow safer ? I'm not against a simple rules of the road test, but frankly it will do nothing for the idiots anyway. The guy who T bones a rec boater at 70 mph in Florida wont be improved by testing.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

So…….. your thinking is there will be less licensed boaters than unlicensed boaters? Are licensed teenage drivers who still constantly text while driving somehow safer ? I'm not against a simple rules of the road test, but frankly it will do nothing for the idiots anyway. The guy who T bones a rec boater at 70 mph in Florida wont be improved by testing.

Any more than having a license stops Florida drivers running red lights, I wonder if they all own Miami Vice boats too, or just rent them.

Florida does have a requirement to pass a boater safety test for motor boat use>10hp, see below in red. but the multiple choice test is so simple it is meaningless in my opinion, I took it myself online out of curiosity and boredom one day through Boaterexam.com who do versions for most States. At least I will be ahead of the game although currently my age would exempt and my wife me anyway as probably would my UK RYA issued and still current ICC International certificate of competence, and my and my wife's Yachtmaster Offshore Certs. At least the latter RYA stuff involved lengthy instruction in classes and coursework with intermediate testing and add-ons like obtaining a Radio operator's licenses

Education is the answer I believe but voluntary. To do that in the USA would need a total reboot of the population's brains followed by installing totally new software, much as would needed if introducing some kind of sensible gun control. Now I will have really peed off a few more peeps.

Florida Boating Safety Education Requirements

As of 2010, all boaters in Florida who were born on or after January 1, 1988 must have in their possession a valid Boating Safety Education ID Card when operating any motorized vessel of 10hp or more.
Exemptions to Education Requirement

You do not require a Florida Boating Safety Education ID Card if:

• You hold a valid U.S. Coast Guard Marine Operator's License
• You are operating on a private lake or pond
• You are a non-resident of Florida and have completed a NASBLA-Approved course in your state
• You are operating a vessel that has been purchased within 90 days or less (the bill of sale must be made available for inspection upon request)

Age Restrictions

• No one under 14 may operate any personal watercraft (PWC) on Florida State Waters.
• Children under the age of 6 must wear a properly fitted Personal Flotation Device (life jacket) when onboard any vessel.

[BigBoater917]

I'm trying to avoid anecdotal evidence but I disagree about kayaks and canoes. They have the ability to put themselves in harms way and the avoiding action can cause a preventable incident. I've met kayaks in Hell Gate in NY with a light barge alongside and fair tide. Your options are very few in that situation.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by first wind

it's amazing that people who love big government and are for more government control can't seem to be in a discssion with people who disagree without making it personal. it is a sure sign that you don't have a very strong argument if you have to resort to name calling, otherwise you'd stick to debating the issue.

to address your last statement, it's one thing to say that people should educate themselves. it's entirely another to say the government should have even more control over our lives. it's easy to scoff and laugh at people who are concerned about personal liberty....until yours is at risk.

You proved my point. You should take some classes in reading comprehension so you don't read into statements things that were not stated.

[Robin3]

Originally Posted by BigBoater917

I'm trying to avoid anecdotal evidence but I disagree about kayaks and canoes. They have the ability to put themselves in harms way and the avoiding action can cause a preventable incident. I've met kayaks in Hell Gate in NY with a light barge alongside and fair tide. Your options are very few in that situation.

Sooner or later the Darwin principle (survival of the fittest) applies but that is rather sad for the ones who get to be eliminated beforehand.
But what would a paper license do, even if getting it exposed them to the 'rules' ii doesn't cure stupidity. Most folks would have some sense of self preservation, those kayakers not only didn't but apparently had no commonsense or imagination either.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Wrong

Laws in general derive from the acknowlegment by members of a society they need to be protected from one another.

this is not necessarily true, especially in the US. a lot of laws are regulatory laws that restrict behavor that harms no one, or at worst harms only the person doing them. tons of laws enforce arbitrary codes.

a few examples:

there are two states that have laws against owning or buying sex toys. i don't think that anyone is harming other people with their sex toys.

there are lots of states that have laws prohibiting some rather normal sex acts. again, who are they protecting?

seatbelt or helmet laws. if you choose not to wear these safety devices, you are the only person you put at risk.

there are 'dry' towns where the sale of alcohol, a legal product, is prohibited. since the majority of the country allows the sale of alcohol and hasn't become a desolate graveyard because of it, i don't think you could say the law is there to protect anyone. like a number of other laws, this one is just enforcing one person's morality on another.

now, if you were to say that, in America, laws were originally intended to protect one person from another, i'd say you were right. but, it hasn't been that way for a very long time.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You proved my point. You should take some classes in reading comprehension so you don't read into statements things that were not stated.

really? isn't this your post?

Originally Posted by rwidman
Every time this subject comes up, it brings the nut cases out of the woodwork. Against my constitutional rights! Won't solve anything, look at the crazy divers out there! It's just a government money grabbing scheme!, etc.

I don't see how anyone of sound mind can think that testing and licensing won't make things safer on the water. Testing and licensing won't make the waterways accident free but by having people at least exposed to the rules and requirements, most will be safer operators.

For a forum that can argue for twenty pages on the importance of knowing and following the COLREGS, I can't understand any objection to requiring other boaters to know them.

i could swear that calling people nut cases because they worry about the liberties that the founding fathers tried to ensure us is a personal insult to anyone who feels that way.

i am also pretty sure implying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not of sound mind is also a personal attack.

i am also pretty sure that introducing licensing and testing will increase the size of government, the cost of government, and the control of government.

but, hey, i could be wrong about that. perhaps you could explain how my reading comprehension is lacking, here.

[Chenega]

Having paddled thousands of miles by kayak, I can't see or want any type of licensing program for small boats - it won't work and will only create another layer of tax collecting revenue for government. At some point you need to let those who enjoy travel by the smallest of craft make a choice to educate themselves for their own security. It's these activities that develop an appreciation for the environment. We have boater licensing for larger boats sail and power... Where do we draw the line? Do we license bikers, hikers, skiers, and paddle-boarders? We can't save all folks from themselves...
I love sailing and anything to do with the water - but enough - please! Leisure life has become too complicated.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by first wind

really? isn't this your post?



i could swear that calling people nut cases because they worry about the liberties that the founding fathers tried to ensure us is a personal insult to anyone who feels that way.

i am also pretty sure implying that anyone who doesn't agree with you is not of sound mind is also a personal attack.

i am also pretty sure that introducing licensing and testing will increase the size of government, the cost of government, and the control of government.

but, hey, i could be wrong about that. perhaps you could explain how my reading comprehension is lacking, here.

Somehow you got this from my post: "it's amazing that people who love big government and are for more government control .................... "

I never said that.

[BigBoater917]

Originally Posted by Chenega

Having paddled thousands of miles by kayak, I can't see or want any type of licensing program for small boats - it won't work and will only create another layer of tax collecting revenue for government. At some point you need to let those who enjoy travel by the smallest of craft make a choice to educate themselves for their own security. It's these activities that develop an appreciation for the environment. We have boater licensing for larger boats sail and power... Where do we draw the line? Do we license bikers, hikers, skiers, and paddle-boarders? We can't save all folks from themselves...
I love sailing and anything to do with the water - but enough - please! Leisure life has become too complicated.

Except they aren't just effecting themselves. The other vessels that are put into extreme situations by their actions are also effected. On a commercial vessel that has an incident with an kayaker, the officer on watch has a loss of their livelihood and even possibly their freedom.