Do you think recreational boats should be licensed?

[BigBoater917]

That's true that many states require some form of training. The goal is to have safer better informed boaters on the water. I feel there should be a minimum standard but I'm not sure at what level to implement it. I also feel the standard should be the same nationally. We all have anecdotal evidence to support our sides of the discussion, I would hope we all would like a better educated boating public. There will always be idiots in every facet of society so boating (licensed or not) is no exception.

[Rough Magic]

The rules and laws are there because someone did something that endangered another person, either willfully or out of ignorance. Same here. Ships and tugs working in designated channels or under limited maneuverability, have the right of way in all circumstances. Sailboats, even under sail, do not. Okay you guys know this. I guarantee that the guy on his paddle board hasn't a clue (or is that clew?). A reasonable test that would inform him that there are channels, and they're marked on a thing called a chart, is just a plain good idea.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Rough Magic

A reasonable test that would inform him that there are channels, and they're marked on a thing called a chart, is just a plain good idea.

Why not just force 'em to read Chapmans and Chart No. 1?

Hard to prove they did or didn't....

[rjgmt1]

I am interested in biblical, and American, law and find the character of our leaders is not what was prescribed by the Founders to preserve the nation.
Whether you live according to or subscribe to Godly principles or not, truth still prevails. Whether you believe you are being oppressed, or not, is irrelevant. It is interesting to contemplate this;
Pro_28:16 The prince (any civil or religious authority) that wanteth (doesn’t have) understanding ( wisdom of ( liberty)) is also a great oppressor

[Offshore1960]

I believe safety training should be mandatory for all recreational boaters. The USCG Auxiliary and US Power Squadron provide excellent basic safety training classes free of charge. This would be an excellent place to start. People having just the basic knowledge of seamanship, weather and rules of the road would save countless lives and taxpayers dollars each year.
Another alternative is to hold people responsible for their actions. As an example if you choose to depart New York in January bound for the Caribbean in an untested vessel in the face of bad weather and get your ass handed to you. You shouldn't expect the USCG to come and bail you out, or if you do you should have to pay the costs of doing so.
Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, its all the more so when done in safety. All to often one reads about situations that people get themselves into that are completely avoidable.

[psneeld]

Even religion argues the law of tonnage.....

[Offshore1960]

In the above photos a 40-50' fiberglass ketch ended up on the up current end of a group of moored barges in New York Harbor on a Sunday afternoon a couple of summers back. This boat had a half dozen people on board, fortunately no one was injured or killed. The operator of the boat had no concept of tides and currents or much else. He had just purchased the boat and was out riding around with a group of friends. Just one example of many.

[rjgmt1]

Can the goal be accomplished in a way other than licensing by the government?

Here is what one that understood about safety and liberty had to say;

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin

[dwedeking2]

Your goal is more educated boaters with the basis that this would make things safer.

I think that the error comes in believing that a testing system would provide this. I recently did the 7 day live aboard ASA and the driving purpose of their test was to "pre qualify" you for chartering a boat. While I found value (I won't be chartering any boats because as far as I know all the charter companies won't allow single handers) in the course because I was looking for hands on experience. The testing was simple and more along the lines of modern education, study for the test, pass the test, wipe the slate clean and get ready for the next test. Driver's License are done in much the same way. These really turn into desk-job creation tools and a revenue stream for the administration and if what you see on any large US city streets provide little guarantee of a safe environment.

From a personal freedom standpoint, I fail to see the reason why I need permission from anyone to do something that has no physical effect on another. If I run into your boat then I am financially (and possible criminally) responsible to make "it right", irregardless if I have a license or not. I agree there are too many stupid people in the world (on water and land) and they should all go to someplace I am not, but I realize I just can't force people to do that because I don't agree with their level of education, knowledge of risks, or abilities to evaluate what is safe and what is not.

(point being that this becomes another pain in the ass box I have to check off to get permission from a nanny state to do something I want to do that because I am responsible will have <10% of affecting someone else and the proposed solution doesn't remove the problem in reality).

But American's be lovin' their rules, regulations and lines.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Offshore1960

I believe safety training should be mandatory for all recreational boaters. The USCG Auxiliary and US Power Squadron provide excellent basic safety training classes free of charge. This would be an excellent place to start. People having just the basic knowledge of seamanship, weather and rules of the road would save countless lives and taxpayers dollars each year.
Another alternative is to hold people responsible for their actions. As an example if you choose to depart New York in January bound for the Caribbean in an untested vessel in the face of bad weather and get your ass handed to you. You shouldn't expect the USCG to come and bail you out, or if you do you should have to pay the costs of doing so.
Boating is supposed to be enjoyable, its all the more so when done in safety. All to often one reads about situations that people get themselves into that are completely avoidable.

If you think the USCGAUX boating safety course is an example of an excellent course...that great...but I have had so many complaints about the quality of instructors that it makes me sick.

My girlfriend who has done 3 NJ to FL and return cruises and endured Super Storm Sandy aboard still says how bad it was and little she leaned in her USCGAUX course...not because of the material because I gave her the booklet my company used and coached her..but the quality of instructors.

After decades of that training...it has shown some trends of improvement, especially in the PWC arena....but only a bit more on the boating side. Safer boats and better engines have had a substantially greater effect.

The USCG and many rescue organizations are designed to save people...so that's not going away...and yes people can and sometimes are fined or charged with issues arising from rescues....but who is going to be judge and jury when things go beyond what would normally be expected? Are we going to jail boaters like we jail people for minor drug charges (tell me how we that has worked), or bankrupt them with some outrageous fine/rescue reimbursement?

Not too many people I know have enough background to charge other for boating mistakes..heck we don't have a consensus on most brought up here in CF.....not likely things would be better in many official hearings.

I know I would not want too many people, even experience boaters judging me if it would send me to jail or cut severely into my finances for the complex set of issues that go into even the most simple cruise.

[C40]

I am ex-USCG and been a licensed Captain and commercial Ship's Master since 1984. The question is do you really want the government bureaucracy that far up your ass?

Speaking from experience with the regulatory bodies that regulate the commercial industry- USCG, American Bureau of Shipping, United Nations International Maritime Organization, EPA, The EU, various Flag Nation classification societies and industry standards organizations, be very, very careful what you ask for, as you may get it along the fees and costs of feeding bureaucrats.

Short answer not only no, but hell no! My suggestion is take boating safety courses (many), read, study and understand the COLREGS, Bowditch, Chapmans, etc., and gain as much knowledge as possible. Be confident of your vessel and its equipment. And if not, or in doubt, have it professionally surveyed by a Accredited Marine Surveyor (AMS) with SAMS or NAMS.

Know above all else that your life, and the lives of everybody on board are your responsibility and not that of the governments, and even so they do not always have the ability nor the resources to pull you out of the water if you get in trouble. You are on your own. Plan and act accordingly or stay off of the water.

The sea can be a cruel taskmaster for those that are unprepared, but at the same token being at sea can be a beautiful and rewarding experience for those that are.

[beecreek]

A license always becomes a tax. The Feds and States will welcome this to squeeze the last dime out of you.

[chanson1]

One major item is every Canadian boater from kayaks to the biggest power or sailboat takes the boaters licensing course. The course does or it should teach everyone the rules of the road. But if anyone is caught over the legal alcohol limit you are arrested and your boat is confiscated and sold and the money is used to improve the programs we now have for boating courses.

[randsiegfried]

C40 has it right


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[nimblemotors]

What he said. California has no requirements for small vessels.
As I recall, you must pass a boater safety course AFTER you a cited by an officer for some violation. I did a free course online. Very easy to point to such a website in every marine product, particularly lifejackets, as they do radio ads telling you to wear them in the summer here.
THAT makes sense to me.

I was 'pulled over' because I didn't have my 'flag' up, when pulling in my tubers sitting on a tube. Also pulled over in another incident because my 'flag' was faded.
WTF, police need to find something to do to justify their salaries.
They don't stop the jetskis from buzzing around the dock, when big signs everywhere say 'NO jetski's within 100 feet of dock'. Can't fix stupid with laws or even Police, and I don't want them to try either, as they will just end up causing more trouble and not solving the problems.

Originally Posted by dwedeking2

Your goal is more educated boaters with the basis that this would make things safer.

I think that the error comes in believing that a testing system would provide this. I recently did the 7 day live aboard ASA and the driving purpose of their test was to "pre qualify" you for chartering a boat. While I found value (I won't be chartering any boats because as far as I know all the charter companies won't allow single handers) in the course because I was looking for hands on experience. The testing was simple and more along the lines of modern education, study for the test, pass the test, wipe the slate clean and get ready for the next test. Driver's License are done in much the same way. These really turn into desk-job creation tools and a revenue stream for the administration and if what you see on any large US city streets provide little guarantee of a safe environment.

From a personal freedom standpoint, I fail to see the reason why I need permission from anyone to do something that has no physical effect on another. If I run into your boat then I am financially (and possible criminally) responsible to make "it right", irregardless if I have a license or not. I agree there are too many stupid people in the world (on water and land) and they should all go to someplace I am not, but I realize I just can't force people to do that because I don't agree with their level of education, knowledge of risks, or abilities to evaluate what is safe and what is not.

(point being that this becomes another pain in the ass box I have to check off to get permission from a nanny state to do something I want to do that because I am responsible will have <10% of affecting someone else and the proposed solution doesn't remove the problem in reality).

But American's be lovin' their rules, regulations and lines.