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Old 09-06-2013, 11:11   #91
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

I certainly agree and I am a physician good samaitan but outside US , keep on trucking is best advice.
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Unless you are a licensed medical personnel (doctor, nurse, EMT, pharmacist, and such), you should just keep on driving/sailing. Medics have been trained on how to deal with dead people; medically and legally. In a foreign country, Medics are advised to keep on trucking, without looking back! Save yourself the headache! It is not worth it!
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:11   #92
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

Inshore, near bridges or jumping-off spots, I would try to investigate. We get a surprising number of Skyway jumpers who end up not at the morgue, but at the hospital -- and a fair number of them got there because a nearby recreational boater stopped and helped, preventing them drowning before official help could arrive. (Although, our response time on jumpers isn't too bad.) I would hate to have gone on by, thinking it was just a body, and find later the person drowned.
Offshore, far from help, I would take pictures, mark position, note any visible identifying anything, and then leave to report it to the next available authority. The thought of a family suffering somewhere does bother me, but I'm not willing to put my own family at risk in an (unlikely to succeed) recovery attempt.
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Old 09-06-2013, 14:22   #93
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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Actually, yeah, that's what our system of laws state. I would argue that the trial of OJ Simpson for murder proves the concept.
Actually, no, citing the O.J. Simpson murder case as proof that in America one and all who come before the bar of justice are presumed innocent until proven guilty is false. Clearly, the overwhelming evidence did prove that he was guilty, but the inexperienced prosecutors botched the case at the very beginning, primarily by having the trial moved downtown from the westside and especially in Voir Dire / jury selection.

Their (horribly mistaken) assumption was that a jury composed primarily of persons of color would resent Simpson's preference for Caucasian women and his propensity for violence toward women. Getting such a jury downtown was much more likely than it would have been on the westside. As it turned out, that downtown jury sided completely with Simpson and ignored all of the evidence presented.

This was a case of jury nullification, pure and simple.

The Simpson murder case, though, does nicely illustrate one regrettable aspect of the American system of justice; i.e. that if you have a high enough profile and the necessary funds to mount a vigorous defense, you stand a better than even chance of prevailing in court despite overwhelming evidence of guilt.

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Old 09-06-2013, 14:44   #94
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

I cannot see any relationship between morals. ethics and retrieving a dead body to bring into port, sorry. I doesn't involve, compassion or justice and is self-destructive behavior into a latino port, it wouold be defined as the good deal that shall not go unpunished, I guarantee!!!
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I side closely with your ethos and morality (thank you), but recognize the other opinions here are aligned to reality and survival. I cannot make up my mind.
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Old 09-06-2013, 16:59   #95
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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I cannot see any relationship between morals. ethics and retrieving a dead body to bring into port, sorry.
It's a matter of resolution to family members and puts closure on their needs. Doing the right thing just to do the right thing.

But I see your point about the lunatic of the legalities involved, and the "perceived" rich american being poked with a stick to see if he is done yet.
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:01   #96
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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if you find someone offshore it is on you as being there , to rescue the individual or have sar advised --while awaiting their arrival.
Now you come across a “refugee” boat, 100, 200 on board, that is sinking, motor less with little food or water or that is chasing you for the same reasons. Same move than above?
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:08   #97
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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Now you come across a “refugee” boat, 100, 200 on board, that is sinking, motor less with little food or water or that is chasing you for the same reasons. Same move than above?
Move away at the highest possible speed, preferably one that is faster then them.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:49   #98
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

I don't agree live people is a different situation than a floating dead body.
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Move away at the highest possible speed, preferably one that is faster then them.

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Old 10-06-2013, 09:53   #99
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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Actually, no, citing the O.J. Simpson murder case as proof that in America one and all who come before the bar of justice are presumed innocent until proven guilty is false. Clearly, the overwhelming evidence did prove that he was guilty, but the inexperienced prosecutors botched the case at the very beginning, primarily by having the trial moved downtown from the westside and especially in Voir Dire / jury selection.

Their (horribly mistaken) assumption was that a jury composed primarily of persons of color would resent Simpson's preference for Caucasian women and his propensity for violence toward women. Getting such a jury downtown was much more likely than it would have been on the westside. As it turned out, that downtown jury sided completely with Simpson and ignored all of the evidence presented.

This was a case of jury nullification, pure and simple.

The Simpson murder case, though, does nicely illustrate one regrettable aspect of the American system of justice; i.e. that if you have a high enough profile and the necessary funds to mount a vigorous defense, you stand a better than even chance of prevailing in court despite overwhelming evidence of guilt.

TaoJones

Yes, both sides did try to manipulate the system of jury selection, and yes, the prosecution made some horrendous mistakes.

But legally, OJ Simpson WAS legally considered innocent until proven guilty. In the Amanda Knox case, it turned out that police, judge and prosecutor worked together from the beginning, withheld evidence from the defense lawyers and tried to block the Italian practice of retrying her until they realized that maybe they could make her serve more time. She had been there six weeks and was the handy target when the roommate she hardly knew was murdered.

In the case in Missouri, the man who found the remains really had nothing to worry about. He was on an orienteering hike but in Finland, people arrested are LEGALLY considered guilty until prove innocent. The burden is on them to prove their innocence, just the opposite of our system, which is why OJ walked. The prosecution botched it.

My point is that the people who are saying "consider what country you're in" may be right. Still, I would have a hard time seeing a body in the water and just sailing on. I wonder if that happened to Jay once he was in Cuban waters? Or on Cuban ground?
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Old 10-06-2013, 09:57   #100
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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Inshore, near bridges or jumping-off spots, I would try to investigate. We get a surprising number of Skyway jumpers who end up not at the morgue, but at the hospital -- and a fair number of them got there because a nearby recreational boater stopped and helped, preventing them drowning before official help could arrive. (Although, our response time on jumpers isn't too bad.) I would hate to have gone on by, thinking it was just a body, and find later the person drowned.
Offshore, far from help, I would take pictures, mark position, note any visible identifying anything, and then leave to report it to the next available authority. The thought of a family suffering somewhere does bother me, but I'm not willing to put my own family at risk in an (unlikely to succeed) recovery attempt.

In another St. Pete example, someone spotted a body floating under the Skyway Bridge I think last June. and someone else got involved and reported it. Eckard College's SAR heard the call, raced out there, and saved a man who had accidentally been swept into the current on a very rough days (lots of fierce squalls coming through).

What if whoever saw him in the water had done nothing? He was being carried OUT to sea. He had no way to save himself.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:08   #101
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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I don't agree live people is a different situation than a floating dead body.
Having seen what happens when you come upon 40-60 refugees terrified out of their wits at sea, let me tell you , "move away at the highest speed"

groups like these need to handled by armed military that have big boats.

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Old 10-06-2013, 10:16   #102
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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I don't agree live people is a different situation than a floating dead body.
I'm with GBN on this one, run away as fast as possible - the dead can't hurt ya, the desperate living can........
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:29   #103
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

just an aside about Napolenic code and Finland italy etc

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The Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms of the Council of Europe says (art. 6.2): "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law". This convention has been adopted by treaty and is binding on all Council of Europe members. Currently (and in any foreseeable expansion of the EU) every country member of the European Union is also member to the Council of Europe, so this stands for EU members as a matter of course. Nevertheless, this assertion is iterated verbatim in Article 48 of the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
Last time I looked both Italy and Finland are signatories

At least in both countries they dont have to try and resurrect you to explain they electrocuted the wrong suspect !

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Old 10-06-2013, 10:37   #104
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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just an aside about Napolenic code and Finland italy etc



Last time I looked both Italy and Finland are signatories

At least in both countries they dont have to try and resurrect you to explain they electrocuted the wrong suspect !

dave

The police in the town in which Amanda Knox was arrested either didn't sign off on that agreement or systematically ignored it. The embassy was no help to her.

Miscarriages of justice happen everywhere, and the all the officials involved in her case closed ranks. The only thing that saved Knox was Italy's policy (roughly stated here) that all cases are retried. In her case, a guilty verdict was overturned at the second trial. However, she could have been found innocend and could have decided to remain in Italy. Then they could have tried her again, the second time finding her guilty.

If you're arrested in Italy and found innocent -- it's time to leave. Thing is, I can't imagine anyone researching the legal systems of the countries they visit to that extent, especially if one is island-hopping.

But I would have a hard time seeing a body and telling no one. It would haunt me if I did nothing.
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Old 10-06-2013, 10:50   #105
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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