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Old 08-06-2013, 18:53   #76
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

just read Tao's above comments and agree but the port captain is a uneducated small time beaurocrat, usually a corrupt public official, so by keeps you in jail, until someone else decides is the safest way, and an opportunity for a payoff, with no legal training and he answers to no-one, unless he mistakenly lets the bad guy go, so what ever he decides at the time often requires you to wait in prison (like Guantanimo (but no where near as nice), maybe for years, if you don't have funds you don't eat, until someone above him decides wether or not to charge you with a crime. that's the problem!!!
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Old 08-06-2013, 18:57   #77
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

...ut oh...now, Tao will disagree with you by giving his two centavos worth...this is going to be a fun thread! Mauritz
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Old 08-06-2013, 19:22   #78
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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Originally Posted by David M View Post
In some countries like Mexico you are assumed guilty until proven innocent and who wants to end up in a Mexican prison for doing what you thought was a good deed.

I know that sounds callous but you have to protect yourself against primitive justice systems that might throw the book at you.
Haven't been in touch with the US judicial system lately have you?
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Old 08-06-2013, 19:25   #79
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

Or this recent news event:

Bolivian man buried alive with body of woman he is suspected of murdering | World news | guardian.co.uk
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Old 08-06-2013, 19:51   #80
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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I have less experience in Mexico but I suspect the same problem, partially caused by their Napoleonic (Civil) law instead of US common law, assuming foul play and guilty until proven innocent , and how will you prove yourself innocent?

It's easy to say "Oh that's just the Napoleonic Code, but the legal system drives what the police do, how they conduct their investigations, etc. I know of a case where a man from Finland discovered the bones of a murdered woman in Missouri and didn't contact the police for a week because in Finland it would have been a dangerous thing to do. American friends finally convinced him that in America, he was obligated to report it. Eventually she was identified, and eventually, her husband was convicted of her murder.

I just read Amanda Knox's book. It is a real study on the weaknesses of the Napoleonic Code. I would not want to live under it.
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Old 08-06-2013, 19:55   #81
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

Depending on the condition of the body I might take a few parts, like make a shrunken head for my belt, and also check for valuables (gold teeth, etc) but I'd leave most of it.

If you are near a port and don't mind a little risk, corpses are great for pranks.
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Old 09-06-2013, 03:06   #82
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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I just read Amanda Knox's book. It is a real study on the weaknesses of the Napoleonic Code. I would not want to live under it.
Lol - an unbiased view .

Napoleonic Code is not based on "guilty until proved innocent".....it can just seem like that , mainly due to arguably being a slower process as a judicial led investigative process (the system replaced "justice" being dispensed by Princes, Priests and Popes according to their own whims).

But whatever system of justice you encounter it will:

a) be less than perfect
b) be subject to whims / incompetencies / prejudices of those enforcing it (especially at the lower levels - always enough in any judicial system to find something to charge ya with or simply to hold for further investigation)

and

c) as a Visitor you will genuinely be a flight risk - so yer get to suck up the consequences of that.


At the risk of going off on a tangent, although not Napoleonic, I do like the Scottish system of having verdicts of Guilty, Not Guilty and Not Proven........
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Old 09-06-2013, 05:42   #83
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Lol - an unbiased view .

Napoleonic Code is not based on "guilty until proved innocent".....it can just seem like that , mainly due to arguably being a slower process as a judicial led investigative process (the system replaced "justice" being dispensed by Princes, Priests and Popes according to their own whims).

But whatever system of justice you encounter it will:

a) be less than perfect
b) be subject to whims / incompetencies / prejudices of those enforcing it (especially at the lower levels - always enough in any judicial system to find something to charge ya with or simply to hold for further investigation)

and

c) as a Visitor you will genuinely be a flight risk - so yer get to suck up the consequences of that.


At the risk of going off on a tangent, although not Napoleonic, I do like the Scottish system of having verdicts of Guilty, Not Guilty and Not Proven........

Well, I don't think anyone has suggested that any one here has said that any system is perfect. If you haven't read the book, then you don't know why I drew the conclusions I did, and as I've already indicated, my opinion is based on more than one legal incident.

My opinion of the Scottish system would need a lot more information than those three verdicts. For instance, I would want to know whether a person who got a verdict of "Not Proven" could be re-tried. That's one of the problems with Italy's system. She was found guilty the first time, and not guilty the second -- and they can still try her a third time. She was found guilty of slander because she said one of the officers hit her, and they say they didn't, and that was enough for her to be found guilty. Evidence was grossly mishandled and mis-evaluated.

Personally, I think one should read a book before assuming that it was completely unbelievable or not credible.

I think one of the great features of the American legal system is that once you're tried and found not guilty, it's over. They can't retry you. Mz. Knox has been found not guilty in italy, but if she lived there, they could try her again on the same crime.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:27   #84
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

I haven't read that book but have 30 years experience with the "Civil" latino system in Central America, first of all There is no Writ of Heabeaus Corpus, you can't get out of jail by court order because no charges against you have been filed. Secondly issues that require a judge to rule on are argued in writing only,,, by both sides,, it take years to get a decision, and meanwhile you wait in jail for his decision. Thirdly language problems, beaurocratic inefficiency and lost files are the rule not the exception, so like Guantanimo, where US government used Latin civil system to circumvent US common law requirements for imprisonment. you may be in there forever. I needed a title corrected that had been filed incorrectly by an attorney who was stupid, attorny's in that system aren't required to have the examination, or if they must. their licence can be bought, so many incompetant, same with judges, I once had a judge quit a case he was hearing and ruling on, and represent the other party in that same case there in Costa Rica, I finally won took 7 years though. Don't enter a Latin America port with a dead body!!!!
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Well, I don't think anyone has suggested that any one here has said that any system is perfect. If you haven't read the book, then you don't know why I drew the conclusions I did, and as I've already indicated, my opinion is based on more than one legal incident.

My opinion of the Scottish system would need a lot more information than those three verdicts. For instance, I would want to know whether a person who got a verdict of "Not Proven" could be re-tried. That's one of the problems with Italy's system. She was found guilty the first time, and not guilty the second -- and they can still try her a third time. She was found guilty of slander because she said one of the officers hit her, and they say they didn't, and that was enough for her to be found guilty. Evidence was grossly mishandled and mis-evaluated.

Personally, I think one should read a book before assuming that it was completely unbelievable or not credible.

I think one of the great features of the American legal system is that once you're tried and found not guilty, it's over. They can't retry you. Mz. Knox has been found not guilty in italy, but if she lived there, they could try her again on the same crime.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:31   #85
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

I called the police about a dead body on land once. Spent over 24hrs in police interrogation before they learned what happened. I had been number one suspect till then. Never again.
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Old 09-06-2013, 06:53   #86
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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I called the police about a dead body on land once. Spent over 24hrs in police interrogation before they learned what happened. I had been number one suspect till then. Never again.

i know the feeling. i discovered a man who had killed himself in the woods.
he had starved himself to death, and i had interacted with him a month prior.
they questioned me for about 30 minuets, then scalded me for not reporting him as being out there. i said to them, the #$@% business is it of yours who is hanging out in the woods. i had no idea he was killing himself.

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Old 09-06-2013, 07:15   #87
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

Unless you are a licensed medical personnel (doctor, nurse, EMT, pharmacist, and such), you should just keep on driving/sailing. Medics have been trained on how to deal with dead people; medically and legally. In a foreign country, Medics are advised to keep on trucking, without looking back! Save yourself the headache! It is not worth it!
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:18   #88
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

And maybe lose forever the opportunity to provide loved one's closure? Can you imagine the agony of having a family member disappear and never know if they are even alive or dead? How about the degradation of evidence that may be critical to bring a murderer to justice? What about possible charges against you for failing to report human remains? Sorry, but that may be bad advice. (BTW for a really interesting movie closely related to this very subject, watch "Jindabyne." with Laura Linney and Gabrial Byrne)
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:28   #89
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

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And maybe lose forever the opportunity to provide loved one's closure? Can you imagine the agony of having a family member disappear and never know if they are even alive or dead? How about the degradation of evidence that may be critical to bring a murderer to justice? What about possible charges against you for failing to report human remains? Sorry, but that may be bad advice. (BTW for a really interesting movie closely related to this very subject, watch "Jindabyne." with Laura Linney and Gabrial Byrne)
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:44   #90
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Re: Do you pass up dead bodys and leave them stay?

In many places if you report or have any interaction with a DB, you gain responsability for said body and are responsible for the burial and costs associated with it. There was a poor woman that was run over in Lagos last year that lay beside the road for 3 days before the family could get the funds up to recover her. I occaisionally witnessed DBs float by on the Bonny river, would not touch it, do report to the port authorities. As far as closure goes, I guess some are uncomfortable with the unknowable. If someone has gone missing in your life and you know not their fate, you can keep them in your heart and think of them fondly and remeber the good times with them and be content with that, if you are lucky enough to see them again then the joy will be yours.
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