Do the potty police have science on their side?

[zeehag]

properly treated still contains e coli and nitrates and phospates and makes red tide and sickness. same as many years ago. no change in that.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Paul L

A type 1 MSD still has higher fecal coliform discharge than is allowed on a Chesapeake Bay oyster bed at harvest time. So they aren't that clean.

The devices that are actually on the market today (Raritan) typically exceed the Coast Guard/EPA requirements by a factor of 100, according to the manufacturer.

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Snore

Define “properly treated”. Was the water run through a membrane so the fecals were filtered? Perhaps you hit it with CL and then offset the cl with some sodium. Or did you just run it through a macerater?

The Type I MSDs on the market today first macerate the waste then treat it with Cl for a period of time with agitation. Some of the larger ones also have an initial aerobic treatment chamber to reduce BOD and solids.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Jammer

The devices that are actually on the market today (Raritan) typically exceed the Coast Guard/EPA requirements by a factor of 100, according to the manufacturer.

Where do you see Raritan warranting this claim for the Purasan?
I see them guaranteeing
"The PURASAN®EX is a U. S. Coast Guard Certified Type I Marine Sanitation Device for use on un-
inspected vessels 65 feet and under. It must be operated within navigable waters inside the three mile
limit that are not declared Federal No Discharge Zones (NDZ) by the U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency (EPA)"

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Singularity

a significant percentage of people cannot or will not pay the fairly priced pump out fee. Even if pumpout stations were free I bet 5-90% of crew meals would end up unprocessed in the water, depending on cultural variations of adherence to/enforcement of such laws.

I don't know. Perhaps it varies regionally. Most of the boats here are day use. Most that have any sort of sanitation system at all have tent toilets (porta potties etc) because there are only a handful of waters where pumpouts are available (though this is starting to change).

[eyschulman]

I do not believe there is much science behind many of the NDZs. The overriding effects of dilution are being blatantly ignored. On the other hand I believe there is considerable logic involved. The Zealot who can bag the biggest NDZ advances higher in the organization. The boating community with rare exception is probably the smallest contributor to pollution in open waters. Think farms-private waterfront homes-road run off-industrial run off and waste-sewerage treatment overflow and towns that just dump raw drain and sewerage directly into water. The boating community is a soft target so the environmental Zealots go after us.

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by eyschulman

I do not believe there is much science behind many of the NDZs. The overriding effects of dilution are being blatantly ignored. On the other hand I believe there is considerable logic involved. The Zealot who can bag the biggest NDZ advances higher in the organization. The boating community with rare exception is probably the smallest contributor to pollution in open waters. Think farms-private waterfront homes-road run off-industrial run off and waste-sewerage treatment overflow and towns that just dump raw drain and sewerage directly into water. The boating community is a soft target so the environmental Zealots go after us.

I'm also sure the science is poor. It used to be that dilution decided the environmental risk but now it is frequent for the same rule to apply where dilution is poor and where it is excellent.
Also there is no appreciation of the diluting effects of maceration.

I would like them to do the science on the environmentl effects of seal colonies

[a64pilot]

I have to wonder if maceration has any real effect.
I have a macerating head and it’s also how I empty the tank, with another macerator.
However the trauma if you will of waste going through a regular pump and joker valve of a regular head macerates it pretty good I’d think?

However to a great extent in things like this, the solution to pollution, is dilution.
Things that break down and degrade, not things like nuclear waste, although God knows how much nuclear material exists from the testing, I don’t.

[a64pilot]

From a cave diving group that has done a lot of water quality studies, the two biggest sources of spring water pollution in N Fl is Golf Courses and Farms, specifically a way to get rid of animal waste is to store it in ponds and then spray it on fields through irrigation systems.
Septic tanks which are very common in North Fl. Have an almost immeasurable effect surprisingly.
Small amounts of pollution that are widely distributed have an almost negligible effect, it’s when you concentrate it that it is most harmful.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thinwater

The best answer for the first two is Google. For an area to be listed as and NDZ there are very specific criteria. I would not call them "wide spread;" They are in fact, very limited.

The entirety of the Great Lakes, Chesapeake and several other large bodies in their entirety are NDZ...that's pretty wide spread in my mind.

There never was a scientific justification. It was a political not scientific decision.

MSD's really haven't changed much since the 70's.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by zeehag

properly treated still contains e coli and nitrates and phospates and makes red tide and sickness. same as many years ago. no change in that.

And when released 10miles offshore in Lake Michigan...it has absolutely zero impact...no red tides, no sickness...same as many years go no change in that.

This is the kind of pseudoscience that muddies the issue. There are locations that really should be NDZ but rarely are they set up consistent with science.

[thruska]

Yes the poop police will be taking samples of the waters which are sullied . They will them sopena your dna . If its a match you up poop creek ....
I think San Francisco does doggie dna to fine you if they discover the doodoo culprits.
Oo bad water police cant sample ships smokestacks effluents....

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

The entirety of the Great Lakes, Chesapeake and several other large bodies in their entirety are NDZ...that's pretty wide spread in my mind.

There never was a scientific justification. It was a political not scientific decision.

MSD's really haven't changed much since the 70's.

The entire Chesapeake Bay is not an NDZ. Only to small portions.
See No Discharge Zones

[thruska]

Beaches closed due to e- oli are in my estimations are 100% from bird feces. Cant put a catch bag on that . But im sure some genetics engineres will build in the ndz into the geese’s gps ...”

[Exile]

Originally Posted by eyschulman

I do not believe there is much science behind many of the NDZs. The overriding effects of dilution are being blatantly ignored. On the other hand I believe there is considerable logic involved. The Zealot who can bag the biggest NDZ advances higher in the organization. The boating community with rare exception is probably the smallest contributor to pollution in open waters. Think farms-private waterfront homes-road run off-industrial run off and waste-sewerage treatment overflow and towns that just dump raw drain and sewerage directly into water. The boating community is a soft target so the environmental Zealots go after us.

Apparently most of the rest of the world outside the US & Canada -- incl. popular '1st World' areas such as the Med -- have no limits on overboard discharge (treated or not), and no holding tank requirements.

If true, it does provide validity to your post.