DHS seizes boat because owner won't lie

[denverd0n]

Kind of telling, and scary, that someone would even bring up a story about what happens in China when talking about how U.S. authorities treat their citizens.

[Andy73]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

If buyer signs the DHS form then likely the amount shown there will end up being used for taxation in WA, if it was higher than the actual value then I wouldn't want to sign the uncorrected form either, as now you are saddled with an incorrect value (and the resulting taxation) for the life of your boat (of course, I assume it valued the boat higher than actual, had it been lower he probably would have signed).

If that was the only reason OP was declining to sign the form it wouldn't seem very valid. Canada/US exchange is pretty close to even and 6% of the difference (assumed state tax rate) would be pretty minimal...

[sailorboy1]

It seems to me that the story is that the paperwork was wrong and the official wasn't willing to change it, which they probably didn't have the authority to do. So the owner wasn't willing to sign it. After that the official was in a bind as to something that didn't have clear paperwork.

I don't hold officials responsible for doing their jobs and NOT being willing to look the other way or falsify documents.

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by Don Lucas

I don't hold officials responsible for doing their jobs and NOT being willing to look the other way or falsify documents.

Problem is ... the official falsified the document by using wrong currency with correct "numbers", and the customer was not willing to sign the false statement.

The primary form, prepared by the government, had an error. The price was copied from the invoice, but DHS changed the currency from Canadian to U.S. dollars.

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by AndyR

If that was the only reason OP was declining to sign the form it wouldn't seem very valid. Canada/US exchange is pretty close to even and 6% of the difference (assumed state tax rate) would be pretty minimal...

Arrington says that when he made progress payments the dollars were not as close to parity. He appears to consider that the amount he paid in US dollars is the amount that should be the declared value, rather than the value in Canadian dollars at the date of transfer. Need a lawyer to know on this one...

See UnCrunched, he has his boat back now after one day and no expenses incurred on his part.

[goboatingnow]

Just another example of why I am an anarchist.

The common citizenry allow you to be an "anarchist" , when you overdo it, history shows , you just get shot.

[Me-and-Boo]

Where was a visit to an attorney? If my multi-thousand dollar vessel was seized I would be spending quality time with a customs attorney to get things straightened out. There is no reason to argue with a CBP person, do what it takes to get through without having issues, see your attorney later to get it straightened out.

A good lesson is to not be recalcitrant, especially with someone who can tell you to park your vessel over there and walk.

If CBP says one thing and puts it on a form, and you disagree, you need more than just your opinion. In this case it sounds like a problem with currency. You would need supporting evidence, such as copies of the payments indicating currency. CBP officers will need more than "trust me".

[capngeo]

The other side:

frederick says:
February 23, 2013 at 5:58 pm
Okay all, the rest of the story(I was there). 1. The amount on both invoice and CBP form were in U.S dollars correctly completed on the form. 2. Just because someone has $$$ and posts something first on the web, doesn’t make them true. 3. The officer in question did not act gleefully, in fact SHE called back to the office and vessel manufacturer several times to verify the stated value. 4. The officer in question vilified by this rich individual now has to endure all the grief posted here and elsewhere by Mr rich guy and explain why she followed the LEGAL document value and wouldn’t cow to his brow beating. 5. Coastal Craft ended up paying for a broker to perform what should have been a personal importation and guess what The value on that entry was EXACTLY the same as on the CBP presented form. 6. Mr. Rich guy will probably post everywhere now that HE was right due to the fact that he has his boat and did not sign anything, but the fact is that the company took the high moral ground and due to ALL the false posting by Arrington, they paid for the paperwork to be processed. 7. We are all at the mercy of individuals who feel (right or wrong) that they can put out whatever they feel and get hundreds of all of you all worked up about the big bad government, fact is the is/was correct and all of us had to jump thru hoops due to arrington’s posts and written falsehoods. 8. I am proud to work with this office/officer and all of you should be ashamed for vilifying her/DHS without knowing the facts. 9. Most working folds have bosses and we are no exception sadly we had to answer many questions for correctly performing our sworn duties due to all the bad press put out by someone who feels entitled or above the public servant. Shame on you.

[Cormorant]

I'm always happy to hear the other side. . . . Then there's Arrington's response to the above post. Too long and tiresome to paste here in full. He contends the "both prices were in US dollars" part is an outright lie. So down the rabbit hole we go.

Uncrunched

[Tar34]

Originally Posted by capngeo

The other side:

Beware "Mr Rich Guy". I wonder if that is part of CBP training?

[Mike OReilly]

The CND and US dollar were within 1-cent of each other on Feb. 21, 2013 ($1 CND = $0.99 US). The two dollars have been hovering near-parity for many years now. Some days Canada is higher, some days US. So the difference is 1%. Not an insignificant amount I suppose, especially if the import value of this custom made vessel is in the seven or eight figures as I infer from the builder's website: (Costal Craft.)

Now, I don't know how the US border service operates, but most businesses use a convenient exchange rate, which they don't necessarily change daily. Not perfect, not "right", but life is not always perfect.

Interestingly, from the follow up response by the colleague, it appears the value was listed in USD. Who do we believe? If "Mr. Rich Guy" is claiming the exchange rates were not close to parity, then that's a stroke against his credibility. Either way, the difference is 6% of 1% of the value ... again, not insignificant in absolute dollars perhaps, but pretty tiny as a proportion of the cost of this vessel.

I agree we in North America are increasingly headed down totalitarian path. Americans and Canadians have been duped into exchanging personal rights and freedoms for "security and safety." And since we keep re-electing the same people, we collectively tacitly agree. That said, this situation smells more to me like some rich guy not wanting to pay more tax than he absolutely needs to. Not a rights fight, but a good old fashion money squabble.

[sailorboy1]

I find it very sad that whenever a story like this happens the internet gov't haters always just take the position that the gov't officals are in the wrong and the unknown poster is right.

Some posters are just 1 short step from the old days of spitting in the faces of soldiers.

I bet in a lot of all these stories of problems and run ins with gov't officals the core problem is the posters own attitude.

[EzzyD]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

<snip>
That said, my boat was boarded by the coast guard and searched for no real reason.
laws continue to get worse and worse such that today (in usa and elsewhere) the people have lost control. We need new political leaders to reverse the trends.
Unfortunately, when the same people get re-elected over and over and over, nothing changes, and is the fault of the people themselves, they have the power to change it.

The power of the coast guard to board our vesseles with out any warrent or notice has been part of the law since the first congress.

Initially due to insure that revenue was to be paid to allow the United States to pay back debt incurred from the war for independence.

[Cheechako]

I've never viewed "1%-er" as a derogatory term. Simply a statement of class. Sure, some people (92% according to a recent poll if I'm remembering that right) believe the 1% should pay more taxes, but asking that..... is not denegrating the people who are in the 1%....?

[Hermanns]

I'm in the same industry as Arrington, he's a really smart guy and isn't going to do this for a simple rouse (he honestly doesn't need the attention ).

Only met him a few times, high energy, sharp as a tack, no frills guy - but that's from a few conference interactions.

From what I know he DID try to write in the corrected "CAD" vs "USD" but if I read his post on Uncrunched properly the agent would NOT allow this 'alteration'.

I truly hope this gets worked out amicably - the customs needs the revenues and the Canadians want exports to flow too...sometimes a deep breath and calm procedures could have avoided this on both ends (pure speculation).

Hope it gets resolved simply for all...