Death of an Anchorage

[Gruz]

I wonder do you and would you absolutely support a rule that instituted a maximum stay of 3 to 5 days to eliminate the freeloaders who have taken over a perfectly good anchorage and basically kicked the REAL cruising boats out in, let say, Croatia, Greece, Italy, France, Turkey, Albania or that does not count…..


… and for the rest, reading your comments about everything cheap and free in your home countries I now know why you are behaving like god given supernatural race of people when in Croatia, Greece, Italy, Turkey, Albania etc etc.

[CSYChip]

There seem to be 3 distinct issues here. One is where to house the homeless. The post Irma removal of run aground vessels actually made a number of homeless people truly homeless. They had been living in boats washed up at least as far back as Wilma. Cleaning up their boats when they sink or wash ashore is expensive but probably not as expensive as housing them full time. Also, many of the "homeless" living on derelict boats have jobs that don't pay enough to live in the places they work.
Second is the failure to enforce existing laws. This needs to include laws that regulate government. It is equally important to enforce anchor light requirements as to prevent various governments from overreaching their authority. Most local governments do not have jurisdiction to impose anchoring limits as anything below the high tide mark is usually under state or federal control.
The third is a shifting of demographics both of boats and people. The population of older of both is increasing. Older cruisers are less able to cruise and spend more time in the places they stop. They are often also less able both physically and financially to maintain their boats in prime condition. Older boats are often worth less than the cost of dockage and many yards and marinas will not let them in. The owners can't do the required maintenance even if they want and can afford to. And last but certainly not least, the population of Florida and other prime cruising areas is growing at an enormous rate. More people = more boats = less space for all.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Gruz

I wonder do you and would you absolutely support a rule that instituted a maximum stay of 3 to 5 days to eliminate the freeloaders who have taken over a perfectly good anchorage and basically kicked the REAL cruising boats out in, let say, Croatia, Greece, Italy, France, Turkey, Albania or that does not count…..


… and for the rest, reading your comments about everything cheap and free in your home countries I now know why you are behaving like god given supernatural race of people when in Croatia, Greece, Italy, Turkey, Albania etc etc.

I don’t understand your incoherent post, but I can assure you, that I’ve never seen a floating/sinking junk heap like this in an Mediterranean anchorage, the locals simply wouldn’t put up with it.

I don’t know why it seems to be acceptable in places like San Francisco, Newport Beach, CA and Florida.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

The problem in FL are the boaters who would otherwise be homeless. b.

It isn’t really, it’s the abandoned delict boats. The “homeless livaboard boats” may be eyesores, but they otherwise aren’t a “problem”

I’m at anchor in North Lake Worth FL right now. There are at least 6 boats here that were here 2.5 years when I first anchored here. One is a homeless crazy vet (I’ve spoken with him, he is functional but “off”) and his boat is kind of dirty but has looked the same all this time. But the others are more tattered with broken hatches, torn sails, broken rigging etc.

[gmakhs]

The limit by days is not working as well , I have been cruising non stop for 4 months, passed through hard navigational waters , now I am in a nice anchorage ,holding is good , have fresh water access , good dinghy dock , nice town and I am currently here for 2 weeks will stay 10 more days because.of.my cat's illnesses and if want I will stay for more because is my right to do so .
Why would be fair for the municipal to kick.me out to allow more space ? That's not right .
If you don't want wrecks make laws about wrecks but not last that effect nornall cruisers or leave aboards .

Ps Seaworthiness has nothing to do with how the boat looks .

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

. If you want to visit your cousin for a month, or work a seasonal job while living on your boat, rent a mooring or slip.

Nice idea, but illegal in many (most?) places in Florida. Florida has limits on staying on your boat in a marina. Most marinas are on leased bottom an it is illegal to stay on your boat there more than five days in a row or cumulatively more than 10 days a month. Some areas have no marinas where you can "live " on your boat. To remain a law abiding citizen one must anchor out. Melbourne Fl is an example. There is only one marina (very old) that owns the bottom and can allow Liveaboards under the law. Of course this marina is always full so there are no legal long term options but to anchor out.

[Mike OReilly]

As I said, I don’t pretend to know the answer for the Florida. It seems to be a constant problem area when it comes to anchoring issues. But the REAL issue appears to be homelessness, which has nothing to do with anchoring per say.

Likely the real answer lies in economic reform, and improved social infrastructure. If the majority of the ‘problem’ boat are people without other better housing choices, then simply chasing them out doesn’t actually do anything. It just pushes the problem somewhere else.

But as I said, I do think we can and should treat anchorages the same way we treat access to other public spaces. Crown Land camping is freely allowed here in Canada, but you can only camp in the same place for three weeks at a time. Similar limits goes for BLM-type land in the USA.

Enforcement is still a challenge, but it is mostly complain-driven, so the authorities don’t have to try and police the whole area. They just respond to complaints. This limits the need for more police and ever-expanding bureaucracies.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

It's one reason I really like having a very shallow draught. A lot of those shitheaps simply can't get to many of the places we anchor.

And in response to Kenomac's post, if you zoom in, there's a guy poking his head out of the companionway giving the photographer the "stink eye".

[a64pilot]

See, I don’t think the problem is homeless people, sure they are there, but it seems most anchorages are full up with unoccupied boats that are just “stored” there.
This is South Fl, the panhandle doesn’t have this issue.

Then you get areas like Lake Worth that are full of private moorings and boats stored there, that some leave for the Bahamas, but you can’t anchor there, cause the area is full of stored boats and unoccupied private moorings.

These aren’t homeless people, these I assume are people with a land home that desire to store their boat for free, and often as they age and lose interest, the boat just sits there until it eventually sinks or breaks free.
However the whole time it’s occupying a space in the anchorage.

The whole private mooring things irks me, I see it no differently than setting up a campground in a Federal or State park and disallowing anyone else from using that land, cause it’s “yours”

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

I certainly agree with your summary, and that in many cases it's a problem of managing a scarce resource.

It seems to be a triangle:

1. cruisers - making their way around, looking for convenient and safe places to overnight, a week or two, or sometimes longer
2. shoestring sailors - cruisers on a rock-bottom budget, or boat-owners of limited means, and the impoverished liveaboard
3. waterside land-owners

Groups 1 and 2 are competing for a resource, and group 3 are demanding restrictions on, and reduction of that resource.

The socialist in me would make all waterways public, and the only reason for restricting anchoring/mooring would be for reasons of navigation and safety.

Realistically, I fear that the landowners usually have the upper hand here. They live there (mostly), pay taxes and vote in the area. Unless a community decides that boaters are a net benefit to the area, boating won't get any love.

I hear you re mooring fields, but it's a solution that would chase off group 2, thereby ensuring that the average cruiser could more easily find transient spots.

A tough problem, indeed. And I don't think that cruisers/boaters are a large or liked-enough group to have the influence to change that.





The people who are in them like them well enough, it seems.

The folks in Key West that I talked to were not really happy either. They would have preferred a marina with services but had not enough money, there were also concerns with theft and security in their anchorage.

[Morequestions]

The way the economy is for a lot of People in the USA we will see more and more of it.
It's not getting better its getting worse. When the hobo camps get shut down where do the hobo's go? I think if your of middle age now it won't change radically for us. but if your a 30ish type my gosh are you going to see changes

[boatman61]

Okay.. Bowing out.. obviously a domestic USA thing..
Carry on..

[SuW]

This happens occasionally even on the St. Lawrence. This news report has a couple of good pictures about a large steel boat that was evicted from a marina (they were hoping to sell the place for "development" which didn't happen).

Someone took the thing a few hundred yards away and anchored it. It has been ashore at least once and (I think) local property owners have put it back on the hook.

No-one knows what to do about it. Complicated jurisdiction as it is in the lake behind the generating station at Cornwall-Messina.

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

Seamanship will save you from troubles with other boats (not your seamanship others too ).
Sometimes you want to stay in a place for months for different reason , moving few miles is not an option , reason can be from family to repairs or because you like the place,so why the time should be limited by laws ??
You know not all boaters have money for mooring or marinas , other do have a money but considering the price and the attitude of marinas the don't like them , so to save you incovenience you just create another inconvenience to another group.
Now about anchor , if the anchorage is full you are the one who should move on or find another anchorage this is how it works and there is no reason to change

IF the Anchorage is full of actual boaters id agree, but the OP is describing an anchorage full of derelict vessels. If something isn’t done about them, actual boaters won’t have any Anchorage to go to in some areas. I don’t think that actual boaters need to be time limited to a few days or even weeks, but there should be some way to move derelict boats, especially those with no one living aboard, out of the way so the anchorage can be used by actual boats that are capable of moving under their own power and by actual boaters.

[Woodland Hills]

Originally Posted by gmakhs

.

Ps Seaworthiness has nothing to do with how the boat looks .

If your boat has broken rigging hanging in the water and shredded sails flapping in the wind, it does. Ditto flapping blue tarps with frayed edges and half sunk inflatables.