Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-12-2015, 05:14   #76
Registered User
 
transmitterdan's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2011
Boat: Valiant 42
Posts: 4,016
Re: Cuba .. . Fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
The USCG guide was really helpful in answering my initial question. It would appear that the maximum 'ticket' or as they call it a 'notice of violation' an NOV is $10 000. Beyond this amount the USCG cannot issue a NOV. so I presume they would then proceed by summons.
The process for civil violations in the US is pretty consistent across various agencies. A NOV is just a notice that the agency has identified a violation and are notifying the person. The maximum fine is per violation so if there are multiple violations then the fine can be more.

One a NOV has been received the person can submit documentation or other evidence that the violation is not correct or that the fine is too high (e.g. you don't have that much money). Only after a final decision is made will the agency issue an order specifying the exact amount of the fine.

So a NOV is not actually an order to pay anything. It is a notice that they think you should pay something but that is just the start of the process. Generally there is no summons issued in civil matters unless you violate an order.
__________________

__________________
transmitterdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-12-2015, 07:06   #77
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Boat: Custom Van De Stadt 47 Samoa
Posts: 3,743
Re: Cuba .. . Fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
The USCG guide was really helpful in answering my initial question. It would appear that the maximum 'ticket' or as they call it a 'notice of violation' an NOV is $10 000. Beyond this amount the USCG cannot issue a NOV. so I presume they would then proceed by summons.
We are getting to details somewhat beyond my immediate knowledge here, but I believe the ranking of procedures above this is class I administrative civil penalty (which may have a $25,000 cap), class II administrative civil penalties (which may have a $25,000/day cap for first offense and $75,000/ day for additional offenses), and finally Judicial assessment where the cap is the maximum under the law.

Both the class I and II administrative procedures would still look to you (the violator) like "fines". . . . The main difference is the internal USCG procedure is more complex and time consuming.

That specific manual says . . . . . "Commands retain the discretion to not issue a NOV for any offense(s) for which a NOV is authorized if they believe the Coast Guard’s enforcement goals would be better served by pursuing a Class I Administrative Civil Penalty."

And specifically related to this thread . . . you might note that Encl. (5) is "Notice of Violations Guidance for Unauthorized Entry into Cuban Territorial Waters". It lists both 'Proposed Penalty Amount' (up to $10k) and 'Maximum Penalty amounts' (up to $25k), and does not mention the most aggravated offense with the higher maximum penalty in law (Knowing failure to comply) so I presume that goes straight to either the Class I or II procedures. This later offense seemed to be what the USCG was pursuing against the boat in the OP - because there was clear reason to believe the boat had been fully informed of the correct and legal requirements/procedures and then ignored them.

Finally, note that all the procedure we are specifically discussing here are at the decision/discretion of the USCG/administration. They can change it, it ignore it - most all the procedures have a "command can do something else if it better achieves our goals" clause. The law, which has the maximum penilities written into it is carved in stone and can not be changed without congress, but the implementation is left to the agency. This is where we are in a muddle with the Cuba law . . . As congress, the president, and parts of the USCG all have different objectives currently. The law's intent is one thing, the president would like it implemented to achieve another thing, and USCG on the ground seem to be implementing it for a third objective.
__________________

__________________
estarzinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 12:10   #78
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Irwin 37CC -
Posts: 64
Re: Cuba .. . Fine

Some people have a tendency to knock the CG in KW without really knowing the whole story. Unless you have lived in Key West as we had most of the past three years, you have no idea how many illegals float in every night. The Tortuga's and Marquesas are prime spots cause of the lack of population. But it's also a constant problem on KW itself and all the other keys. The news never makes it to the mainland and seldom does media bother to go down to find out the truth. The CG and law enforcement in general there is overwhelmed with them. With the easing of tensions between the two countries, wet foot, dry foot is a major issue we are pay though the nose for in free benefits to arrivals.. Ted...
__________________
Ted and Relinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 15:40   #79
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 587
Re: Cuba .. . Fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted and Relinda View Post
Some people have a tendency to knock the CG in KW without really knowing the whole story. Unless you have lived in Key West as we had most of the past three years, you have no idea how many illegals float in every night. The Tortuga's and Marquesas are prime spots cause of the lack of population. But it's also a constant problem on KW itself and all the other keys. The news never makes it to the mainland and seldom does media bother to go down to find out the truth. The CG and law enforcement in general there is overwhelmed with them. With the easing of tensions between the two countries, wet foot, dry foot is a major issue we are pay though the nose for in free benefits to arrivals.. Ted...
True, I have not been in the Keys in years but I am trying to picture how illegals are affecting the locals. Last time I was there food was very expensive, lodging was outrageous, and unauthorized camping was not permitted. Where are these people eating and living? They don't just arrive by raft and start walking up Duval.
__________________
captlloyd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 16:16   #80
Registered User
 
Island Time O25's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 2,016
Re: Cuba .. . Fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
True, I have not been in the Keys in years but I am trying to picture how illegals are affecting the locals. Last time I was there food was very expensive, lodging was outrageous, and unauthorized camping was not permitted. Where are these people eating and living? They don't just arrive by raft and start walking up Duval.
They blend in well with the locals.
__________________
Island Time O25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 22:01   #81
Registered User
 
tomfl's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Florida
Boat: Seawind 1000xl
Posts: 1,959
Images: 10
Re: Cuba .. . Fine

Quote:
Originally Posted by captlloyd View Post
True, I have not been in the Keys in years but I am trying to picture how illegals are affecting the locals. Last time I was there food was very expensive, lodging was outrageous, and unauthorized camping was not permitted. Where are these people eating and living? They don't just arrive by raft and start walking up Duval.
There is a huge run down trailer park in Marathon known as the Cuban Ghetto and the public housing development behind the KMart/Winn Dixie shopping center is entirely Cuban. Both places are low rent places many English speakers are wary of entering. Monroe County has the highest percentage of population on welfare of any county in the state of Florida. Both Publix and Winn Dixie have more Spanish speaking employees than English speaking.
__________________
tomfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-03-2016, 17:05   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Punta Gorda, Fl
Boat: Irwin 37CC -
Posts: 64
Re: Cuba .. . Fine

I guess the prior couple replies answered your question Captloyd. The "locals" in Key West and most of the Keys are being replaced by illegal
Cubans. Homeless Cubans are all over the place sleeping and begging.
The City of Key West had such a panhandling problem they passed an ord. allowing two locations for it. The Stores are taken over by them and if you don't speak Spanish they ignore you. Maybe you need to make a trip down and stay more than a couple days. I lived and worked there for the past three years. We were so glad to quit our jobs and come back home to Punta Gorda.
Ted.
__________________

__________________
Ted and Relinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Cuba

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mast Hardware, Fine Thread or Standard? Sonrisa Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 21 22-05-2011 13:33
Fine or Coarse Threads cantxsailor Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 19 12-11-2010 12:58
Alternator Tested Fine but not Charging svstrider Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 1 03-03-2010 04:13
White Smoke but Engine Runs Fine Artessa Engines and Propulsion Systems 43 12-08-2009 06:49
Very fine job! irwinsailor Meets & Greets 1 28-02-2003 23:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.