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Old 11-04-2011, 12:14   #106
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Re: Cruising the World with a State Registration ?

Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
Yes, the French officials in Guadeloupe (caribbean) have sporadically rejected state registration documents. That's the only place we specifically know of any such problem.

You will be able to get around the world with a state registration - in fact most officials don't even look at the documents. But there are places (Australia, France and the USA come immediately to mind) where the officials can be difficult if they are having a bad day. State registration in a country different from your passport creates an opportunity for you to be picked as 'the nail that sticks up' that they get to hammer to let them feel better.

The 'easiest' thing for a world cruise would be to get a national document from the same country as your passport - is there a reason you don't want to do that?
If your an American citizen in foreign ports you have a lot easier means of cutting red tape. A landed immigrant or even someone that has non immigration documents from the United States sure. Have some way of establishing why a foreigner has an American boat. Less power but the Caribean is patrol by the United States. The Feds can board any American vessel at sea.

The Indian thing---they cannot be denied admission to the United States but they need to follow the rules, well established between Canada and The United States.

Sure most of the boats are owned by Canadians. WA has a foreign owner document that lets non resident keep their boats in the waters of the state. Many get cruising permits fairly easily if you follow the well established rules and application of regulations in that region.

So you drive from Canada to the marina. Sure the border scanned your license plates, but thats not travel documents that establish Canadian citizenship. Lots of Americans drive BC registered cars. Even a NEXUS card cant establish citizenship or legal entry into the US.

So you Mr Canadian who has a cruising permit that allows you to be exempt from checking into ports. Doesn't give a foreigner the right to navigate United States waters inspection free. They can check any time to ensure you still qualify for that permit and its not a license. It does not excempt you from immigration questioning nor does it establish legal entry. You have no legal establishment of entry to the United States. Even if you have documents burden of proof is on you to prove your in US waters legally. Just because its permited and documented (reg WA). Doesn't mean you didn't leave from Canada. Burden of proof is on YOU they just need to suspect it.

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Old 11-04-2011, 12:45   #107
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Re: Cruising the World with a State Registration ?

Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
My understanding is that the Visa Waiver Program has a foundational commitment by the scheduled carriers to pay the costs of returning any passenger not permitted entry to either their home country or the country of most recent departure. That seems quite sensible to me and explains why the VWP isn't available to recreational craft. That moves the rationale for the program from political to quite reasonable.
If I have a state registered boat from WA or even Canadian. I go to California. For this example its a ski boat so I'm trailing it. My truck is WA registered and plated. I have a house in WA. So I see Lake Shasta and it looks like a fun place. Sheriff Department stops me to check if my boat is able to navigate in their waters safely. Probable cause only works with traffic stops!!!!! Sir are you aware that we dont allow foreign boats on our lakes? Nope. I may also need to prove that I'm not using WA registration to skirt paying sales tax--burden of proof is on me to prove my boat has not been in Californian waters over the time alloud.

The reciprocity and regognization is not absolute! Water must flow to navigate several states waters. And some places only give reciprocity to those states. Like Shasta has water flowing in from Oregon, but not Washington.

But this thread is about operating international so those laws apply but not here in this thread.

The visa waiver is simular. Just because you've established to granted parole in that status. You can be out of that status and have it taken away.

I.e cruising the caribean and being interdicted by US federal authorities. Your know in a new immigration situation and oh your rentering the us on a private residence. blah,blah,blah.

Visa's are not for establishing your right to be in the United States!!!!! Your out of status for that waiver. Same as having a permit--its not a right.

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Old 11-04-2011, 14:56   #108
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Re: Cruising the World with a State Registration ?

If your an American citizen in foreign ports you have a lot easier means of cutting red tape. A landed immigrant or even someone that has non immigration documents from the United States sure. Have some way of establishing why a foreigner has an American boat. Less power but the Caribean is patrol by the United States.

Could someone translate the above?
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Old 11-04-2011, 15:47   #109
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Re: Cruising the World with a State Registration ?

Originally Posted by zudnic View Post
. . .
One immigration situation is not the same as another. You said you've helped someone immigrate, even if you've helped 10000's every one is different on a case by case basis. . .

Have you ever dealt with a deportation and green card issue. . .

Really fun getting a Canadian who was deported and even escorted out of the United States--this persons offence. His "green" card was taken because the agent didn't like his dislike of being drafted into the Vietnam war while he was on leave from the Canadian Navy. . .
At last, some valid questions and concepts ** But still Native Americans (Indians) and entry via automobile really has nothing to do with the OP question or even with a Cruising and Sailing Forum. Maybe an "immigration forum" would be more appropriate.
- - But anyway the first underlined statement is quite true. Mainly because submissions for immigration are so often sloppily done and do not follow the very latest rules coming out of USCIS and NVC. The package of documents necessary to even get your application considered is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch thick and can contain maybe 50 to 100 pages. It can take years to accumulate and translate the needed documents even before you assemble the package.
- - That second underlined statement is very simple, as a "green card holder" you can be deported for just about any reason what-so-ever. Even not carrying your "green card with its RFID" on your person at all times is grounds for revocation and deportation. That is why most "green card holders" sweat out the time until they can apply for "natualization."
- - The third underlined statement is significant as I have actually read the applicable law and been subject to irrational rejection of a Visa and have friends who have been rejected for "immigrant" status - totally at the whim and emotions of the consular official. It is in hard black and white words within the US Immigration manual that any visa or other application can be summarily rejected by any consular official for any feeling or idea that you might not be suitable for immigrant status. Or an immigration officer at the port of entry can do likewise if they have reason to feel that your entry contains false information. It is further written that you have no right to appeal. Once you get handed your rejection letter you have to start all over again from the very beginning. That one caused me months of red steaming ears and a loss of a whole year of work and a lot of money.
- - But all of this is off topic except as an example that most everywhere in the world, you are totally at the mercy of the whims and emotions of the local immigration official. When you have been cruising for a long time you get to know which ports to not check-in and which to check-in because of difficult officials. The Bahamas is famous for having local port officials that are all over the map on what length of visit they will allow you.
- - As much as we cruisers are self-assured and generally used to being "Alpha" people when it comes to checking-in/out we put on our submissive, lost puppy dog demeanor and lie through our teeth about how wonderful and important the official must be and how much we wish to visit and spend money in their country.
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Old 11-04-2011, 17:27   #110
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I would agree with Evans the most important thing is that the owners passport and the boat reg should match. In the main this avoids problems

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Old 12-04-2011, 09:33   #111
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Re: Cruising the World with a State Registration ?

I needed to figure out away to explain without being a gray area that sounds like a majic bullet to skirt the laws with immigration, federal, state, customs duty, etcetera.

A Canadian who has a boat can keep that boat in WA. If that person is a BC resident. They can document with WA as a foreigner. This allows that vessel to remain in state waters duration of status. Even if that vessel leaves and comes back to WA waters. The vessel does not need to renew their document. As long as the owner doesn't become a full time resident of WA, the permit document is valid. A federal Customs agent can permit that boat to enter WA waters anytime from the United States, its not a foreign vessel in WA waters and they are not obligated to protect the state from foreign vessel invasion.

A Canadian who is resident in the province of British Columbia, always maintains resident status as long as they pay property tax. Even if you have no property but became a BC resident. As long as you have intent to remain a BC resident. That person has 10 years to move back. Even after that period the burden of proof would be on the government to prove I left the province for 10 years. Impossible to prove intent Un less the person admitted it. Right to remain silent. BC charges premiums for health insurance if your above a certain income level. So someone from BC can always be a resident. Even though the BC residents boat resides in WA, you can insure it with the Insurance Corporation Of British Columbia (ICBC)even third parties need to be underwritten by ICBC to sell insurance within the province.

The only way for American ships pleasure/commercial ie those Deadliest Catch fisherman that are based in Seattle to head up into Alaska is by entering and exiting Canadian waters. Or they could stay in international waters. So under some long and probably forgotten agreement. They have some waiver. The American Navy can also transit Canadian waters freely to get back into port. BC Ferries has a Jones Act waiver for some ports in both Alaska and Washington State. Transport Canada, all Canadian boats are registered by transport Canada. Even if provinces offered provincial insurance--the Head of provincial government is the Sovereign. So provincial registration is the same as being registered by Canada.

Transport Canada has agreed to basically give up ownership info and even seize ships if requested by the U.S Coast Guard. Short example ie if someone in Ontario gets a speeding ticket in NY. The province will treat that as if it occured in Ontario. Suspend drivers licenses until fines are paid in NY or asses driver's license points, etcetera. Canadian registered ships are the same set up except between Canada and the United States. Since British Columbia also has government underwritten insurance. A pleasure boat cannot only be held liable for damaging US waters--BC insure may also pay out claims. BC courts have enforced insurance claims brought by the United States, Washington State and individual American citizens. The jurisdiction to enforce all claims exists basically. Technically the same as being US Coast Guard documented.

Hence why the United States has the I 68 boater program--prevents state fisheries or federal agents from chasing Indians, all Canadians, from American waters under United States jurisdiction. Hence you must remain 25 miles outside of state waters until you officially seek immigration into the United States. Those boaters with WA documented permits are welcome in state waters, so not a foreign vessel in that state. The feds have no obligation to protect the state from a foreign invader. The vessel has an official duration of stay in Washington.
Amendment 29 (1954) -- Art. 2 Section 33 ALIEN OWNERSHIP --The ownership of lands by aliens, other than those who in good faith have declared their intention to become citizens of the United States, is prohibited in this state, except where acquired by inheritance, under mortgage or in good faith in the ordinary course of justice in the collection of debts; and all conveyances of lands hereafter made to any alien directly, or in trust for such alien, shall be void: Provided, That the provisions of this section shall not apply to lands containing valuable deposits of minerals, metals, iron, coal, or fire clay, and the necessary land for mills and machinery to be used in the development thereof and the manufacture of the products therefrom: And provided further, That the provisions of this section shall not apply to the citizens of such of the Provinces of the Dominion of Canada as do not expressly or by implication prohibit ownership of provincial lands by citizens of this state. [AMENDMENT 29, 1953 House Joint Resolution No. 16, p 853. Approved November 2, 1954.]
British Columbia does not expressly or by implication prohibit WA residents from residing or even being in the province. In fact the municiple government of Delta even provides Point Roberts, WA municipal utilities, water, power, phone and cable TV. The province and state are on friendly terms, both resident and governments. As a property owner or not a BC resident has lawful presence in the state for duration of staus. As long as a BC person wants even as a state resident freely. The only stumbling block is US immigration---most times Canadians are admitted non immigration duration of status. ie students admitted into WA if given an I-94 are admitted for D/S. No state schools need proof of a student visa to offer education to Canadian Citizens.

US Customs agents being state residents and citizen have no obligation to chase out state foreign invaders from BC. We are welcomed by state and federal governments when legally entering.

Ontario cancels provincial residence services after 7 months absence. No insurance, health, auto, etcetera. Florida only allows drivers license to Canadian's on non immigrant status for 6 months. Therefore foreign vessels and non residents of Florida, local knowledge, dictates visitors are only welcome for 6 months. Hence why Canadians can have problems even with florida state registration. If they are on non immigration status.

Indian fishermen maybe welcome in the US. But local knowledge says that the state and local resident Indian tribes are NOT!!!

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