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Old 03-04-2008, 21:09   #16
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it isn't paranoia if they really are out to get me (hehe)

The website is the CBP website (Customs and Border patrol) where I went in search of the illustrious "Decal/Transponder" purchase for all +30 foot boats leaving the USA and is mandated purchase when returning.

Check out the site yourself, it said they have been able to check individuals since 1995 with the EZ pass (who are "wanted" or on the Terrorists list.) I am neither. I presume since I read it on the site it is not a state secret.

Also note, the last part of what the "Decals/Transponder" is named hellosailor.

Have a nice day.
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Old 03-04-2008, 21:36   #17
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Pogo-
"Also note, the last part of what the "Decals/Transponder" is named"

I don't know, what is it named? Fred?

A slash character ( / ) is shorthand for the phrase "And/or" and the sentence on the web site is thus literally read as "Decal and/or Transponder" referring to two totally separate pieces of equipment.

If the page you read was:
User Fee Decals and Transponders - CBP.gov

You will see separate headings for "Decal Information" and "Transponder Information" immeidately below the date in the lead of the article.

That goes on to say
"Transponder Information
The transponder, also known as a User Fee, [sic] is a sticker that contains an electronic chip that transmits information about a vehicle and border crossing user fee payment status." ..." The transponder is to be placed horizontally on the inside lower left of the truck's windshield "

Please note that this refers to a TRUCK and a "vehicle and border crossing" and, like an EZPASS, is something for CAR AND TRUCK traffic at LAND CROSSINGS.

The site is quite clear about DECALS being something totally different:
"Decal Information
Decals are stickers that are placed on all private aircraft and private vessels (30 feet or more in length) as proof that the User Fee for entry into the U.S. has been paid for the calendar year. If a vessel or aircraft does not have a decal upon entering the U.S., an application must be completed and a User Fee purchased when reporting to CBP. The decal will be mailed from the processing center.

Placement of Decals – Private Aircraft or Private Vessels
The user fee decal for private aircraft and private vessels is to be affixed on the outside of the conveyance within 18 inches of the normal boarding area, where it is visible when doors/hatches are open. "

So, there's no remote reading of transponders and no reading of decals at all--except by a boarding party within eyeshot of your boat. And no requirement to purchase the decal before you go, you can pay for it at your return.
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Old 03-04-2008, 22:58   #18
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Hellsailr,

Yeah..well thanks for enlightening me. I read it (your material and the websites) also, both today and before.
It was really noble of you to go to such trouble to defend it for them

I attempted to find the exact statement I mentioned prior. Unfortunately, the information with regards to "since 1995" eluded me today. It's almost as if it was my imagination, but should I find it again, I will note the exact page for perusal. I won't withdraw my comments on it, because I did read it somewhere associated/linked with that large website.

peace to you
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:05   #19
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Pogo, if you mean that Customs says they can use EZPass to check on entrants--I wouldn't doubt that. The EZPass system is privately owned and the owners reserve the right to share or pass their information on to anyone they please. If I owned that system, or ran their security department, and Customs came to me and said "We want to be able to run your database in real time"...I'd have to consider saying yes.

EZPass has taken a lot of flack because they used, and continue to use, one of the first vehicle transponder technologies, and it has been obsolete since shortly after it deployed. It only works "close up" so they still require toll booths and plazas to use it. As opposed to others like the Florida SunPass, which allows vehicles to run under overhead scanners at highway speed.

The whole issue of datamining and datasharing scares the hell out of me. J. Edgar Hoover was neither the first nor last wierdo to hold the reins of a major police agency. That Customs also has a long-standing policy of saying "Well, you're not IN the US yet, and you have no RIGHTS until after we let you in" is something else again.
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Old 06-04-2008, 10:34   #20
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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Pogo-
"they are able to "read the decal remotely" similar to the EZ PASS decals on a "
That's sounding like Big Brother Paranoia.

EZPass does not issue decals. They issue radio frequency transponders, which can only be read with a RADIO transceiver that is fairly close (~50 feet) of them. Yes, each one has a bar code on it--but there's no way to read that remotely, you hafe to remove the transponder from the car and place it under a bar code scanner, just like a supermarket checkout line.

What the EZPass system DOES do, is read every license plate for every vehicle, and when they can't read a transponder, the picture of the license plate is digitally recognized and compared against the list of license plate and EZPass owners. If your plate matches an EZPass owner, you get a letter and a charge.

No remote reading, no decals.

The only way to remotely read a "decal" would be with a long distance bar code reader (if it was bar coded) or a radio--IF there was a transponder in it. AFAIK, the decals have no transponders, and aiming a bar code reader at a moving vessel would be an exercise in "Ah, just heave to and let me read it, wouldya?".

What did you think you saw on what web site??
I was poking around


User Fee Decals and Transponders - CBP.gov


and came across this.

Transponder Information
The transponder, also known as a User Fee, is a sticker that contains an electronic chip that transmits information about a vehicle and border crossing user fee payment status.

From the way this reads the "decal", sticker whatever simply has a nice RFID in it. It could be read remotely but who knows how far away one can be. To my knowledge it is max 50ft or so these days with the best of equipment. RFIDs have no power source from what I have read. Not exactly sure the science of it but they are in clothing, boxes, packages etc. nowadays. Really cool "Big Brother" stuff.

It is funny that they are calling a "Transponder" a "User Fee" like they are interchangeable. Most of my "user fees" are folded in my wallet and my transponders are......well hummmm.....I don't know if any have been implanted on me yet. I do have this itching in places sometimes and that ringing in my ears...........
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Old 06-04-2008, 12:59   #21
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"The transponder, also known as a User Fee, is a sticker ..."
"From the way this reads the "decal", sticker whatever "
There's no "whatever". A decal is not a sticker, a sticker is not a decal. That's like ordering a beer and accepting a bottle of wine because, after all, they are both booze. Apparently a whole generation have been damaged by not being able to sniff glue, when model airplace glue was banned as dangerous, models started to disappear, and as every kid from the 50's or 60's could tell you, a DECAL is a very thin thing you slip into water and then transfer to the models. It isn't a sticker, it isn't sticky at all. In fact WalMart, trying to be so very correct, no longer sells plastic models, model glue, or model paint. They died sometime in the past two years.

But yes, you are right, the web site is worded very poorly. The sticker IS NOT A USER FEE. A "fee" is not an object, a "sticker" is. Fourth grade grammar. What the web site's authors make unclear is that your sticker is PROOF OF THE FEE BEING PAID, that is the sticker is a receipt for the fee payment and no other receipt is needed.

That still doesn't make the sticker into a fee--it just proves that someone who should not have passed grammar school, got a job writing web pages for the Government.

"simply has a nice RFID in it. It could be read remotely but who knows how far away one can be. To my knowledge it is max 50ft or so these days " And that's all it is. The same technology that is in the books in your library, the razor blade boxes at WalMart, and the meat tray in your supermarket. Actually it is a resonant antenna circuit, you "ping" it with the right energey, and the energy resonates in the metal and then shoots back out. You add some higher technology, and the energy can be used to do other things while it is there--like read a chip and call back the chip number as it comes back out.

That's why you can't take a plastic tray of steak from the supermarket and stick it in your microwave, the resonate circuit on the price sticker will quickly superheat and start a fire as the microwave energizes it. Don't even think about taking a microwave oven, gutting it, focusing it on windshields, and burning out Customs' stickers en masse.[VBG]


"It is funny that they are calling a "Transponder" a "User Fee" like they are interchangeable. " Sadly, not funny at all. Just a sign of rampant illiteracy in every level of the government agencies that read that web page--and didn't notice it was written in YnGlitch instead of American English.

Like the airport security clerk who told me "You can't take that dog to the gate" as I was walking through with a gate pass. The dog, unseen by her, was already six feet ahead of me. So I replied, "Oh, since I can't take him should I let him go by himself?"

After all, she only said that I couldn't TAKE him, she didn't say anything about dogs being allowed to go there. Five dollars an hour gets you lots of that. (sigh)
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Old 06-04-2008, 13:10   #22
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Originally Posted by hellosailor;150097
[B
(sigh)[/B]
Yea.
I feel that pain too.
And I am not an English major, brain scientist or rocket surgeon.
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Old 06-04-2008, 16:23   #23
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Good grief...what committee of retards dreamt this up? Talk about user unfriendly. Just to make a point, I would be tempted to place the sticker inside the bowel of my head to be used for target practice. One reason people buy boats is to get away from this type of nonsense that has become so commonplace in this heavily bureaucratized society.
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Old 06-04-2008, 23:08   #24
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Egads!!
Thanks to "Therapy" for finding that information again for my sanity. (I was working on the boat, and didn't get to the computer.)

Adding to this pissing match, let me say...the "Sticker" arrived and it is "no decal" *as defined and mentioned by "HelloSailor".

"Peel off the backing and stick it within 18 inches of your normal boarding area using its own adhesive. Where it can be readily seen with doors or hatches open." So goes the instructions.

So in this case, a "Decal is not a Decal", is not a Transponder, and most likely isn't a user fee?

It all just supports what the intent of my original post was; the site was a screwed up unfriendly site.

Thanks Y'all
(not a real thanks, but... uh... ending to a message, which is really a response to a message errr)
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:32   #25
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Pogo-
"the site was a screwed up unfriendly site." Customs doesn't have the reputation of being the most, ah, taxpayer-friendly folks.<G> They're so often being busy bulldogs, that they sometimes forget who they work for.
So here's the secret to re-entering the US for US citizens. All you have to say is "Mister, I haven't filed my taxes yet, and if you don't let me back home right now, when the IRS asks me why I couldn't get home to pay my taxes, I'm going to give them YOUR NAME and tell them IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT."
Not even Customs wants to deal with the IRS.[VBG]

Of course, it is much easier to get back into the US when you're not trying to sneak something the size of a boat back in with you.
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Old 07-04-2008, 17:32   #26
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Egads!!



It all just supports what the intent of my original post was; the site was a screwed up unfriendly site.

Thanks Y'all
(not a real thanks, but... uh... ending to a message, which is really a response to a message errr)
I have nothing better to do.

Can't sell the house right now...........

LOLOLOLOLOLOL
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Old 23-03-2010, 22:26   #27
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Hello All,

First post. Trying to get set to go to Bahamas mid April, trying to leave Brunswick, GA about April 1st ish & head to Ft. L. or Miami. Just now learning about all the blank ity blank red tape. Got logged in on CBP site, but haven't gotten further. I'm assuming I have to set up an account and become some kind of account administrator to proceed w/ purchasing the decal. Boy, have we ever let the government get out of control.... I get furious dealing w/ so much bs. Can anyone tell me if I even have time to get all the bs done within a week?

Frustrated,

Randy Northcutt
Sweet Sheets
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Old 23-03-2010, 22:42   #28
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Just go. Deal with it when you return. That was my experience in San Diego anyway. Hot young DHS officer nicked me $27.50. No questions. No inspection. No decal. No transponder. But I'm more charming that most CF'ers so maybe get away with more.
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Old 23-03-2010, 23:48   #29
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I also found their website very difficult.

I find it frustrating that that there are so many government agencies that to such a large degree need duplicate information. It seems to me, one place should be able to do your registration, documentation, decal, and local boater's permit. It's just crazy how unnecessarily complex that all is.
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Old 24-03-2010, 11:24   #30
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Originally Posted by pogo
It is well understood that governments are often inefficient, compounded and burdensome in the real life. I just didn't understand they could do the same on a simple purchase of a Decal, in cyberspace.
The explanation is really very simple. They do not care in the least how badly they inconvenience the customer, because they don't have to. They are an absolute monopoly and they know it. In fact, they are a monopoly that can send men with guns to hunt you down if you don't do business with them in exactly the way that they demand.

As a result, they design their processes, rules, procedures, and websites with THEIR convenience in mind, not YOURS!

Now, doesn't it seem like a really good idea to turn ever more of our economy and our lives over to these very same people?
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