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Old 28-12-2014, 16:05   #46
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

"Arrest that "man"! He's one of them!"

"Which one, the one who knows which direction is correct or the one who doesn't?"

[crickets chirping.]

"Oh, to hell with it. Give me some port."
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Old 29-12-2014, 03:57   #47
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
LOL Carsten, passing it around clockwise (as the men let me glimpse), IS passing it to port. No secrets were being withheld .

SWL x
Hmmmm Lassie - one of us has passed the port too much (or perhaps not passed the port enough), You almost had me confused as I was taught that the right hand side of the boat (looked at from stern to bow) is staboard and the left hand side is port. Therefore if we look at a boat from above - passing the port clockwise would mean the bottle is going to the right or starboard.

Counterclockwise would mean the port is being passed to port (not to be confused with a port to port passing). Of course if we pass the port enough we eventually will get p*ssed from passing the port and then we will begin to think we can p*ss the passed through port over the port side. If we are on a port tack then it isn't advisable to attempt to p*ss your passed through port to port.

I noted that this was invented to allow gentlemen (who never sail to weather with a glass of port) to ascertain if a woman was present in disguise. Sort of like Sherlock HOlmes who was able to discern that the client in from of him as a man i a womans disguise by lobbing a small object at him. He reacted by clsing his legs together to catch it (being used to wearing trousers) whereas Sherlock reasoned a woman would have spread her legs to catch the object in her skirts.
Of course, maybe we should just have another glass of port.

Link to Wiki if you doubt my wisdom on which is the port side

Port and starboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Happy new years and please pass the port
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Old 29-12-2014, 04:52   #48
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Carstenb, methinks you don't know the Lassie well enough; clearly there are two other explanations of why her testimony of the port direction is confusing you.
1. The room was turning (perhaps spinning) and the port was staying still - this would cause the Lassie to think the port was going in the other direction.
or
2. She was observing the port being passed from the floor looking up rather than standing looking down - this reverses the clockwise / anticlockwise view that she refers to.

Although I can't think why she may have been on the floor.
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Old 29-12-2014, 05:59   #49
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

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Originally Posted by carstenb View Post
Hmmmm Lassie - one of us has passed the port too much (or perhaps not passed the port enough), You almost had me confused as I was taught that the right hand side of the boat (looked at from stern to bow) is staboard and the left hand side is port. Therefore if we look at a boat from above - passing the port clockwise would mean the bottle is going to the right or starboard.

Counterclockwise would mean the port is being passed to port (not to be confused with a port to port passing). Of course if we pass the port enough we eventually will get p*ssed from passing the port and then we will begin to think we can p*ss the passed through port over the port side. If we are on a port tack then it isn't advisable to attempt to p*ss your passed through port to port.

I noted that this was invented to allow gentlemen (who never sail to weather with a glass of port) to ascertain if a woman was present in disguise. Sort of like Sherlock HOlmes who was able to discern that the client in from of him as a man i a womans disguise by lobbing a small object at him. He reacted by clsing his legs together to catch it (being used to wearing trousers) whereas Sherlock reasoned a woman would have spread her legs to catch the object in her skirts.
Of course, maybe we should just have another glass of port.

Link to Wiki if you doubt my wisdom on which is the port side

Port and starboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Happy new years and please pass the port
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Carstenb, methinks you don't know the Lassie well enough; clearly there are two other explanations of why her testimony of the port direction is confusing you.
1. The room was turning (perhaps spinning) and the port was staying still - this would cause the Lassie to think the port was going in the other direction.
or
2. She was observing the port being passed from the floor looking up rather than standing looking down - this reverses the clockwise / anticlockwise view that she refers to.

Although I can't think why she may have been on the floor.

You sirs, are no gentlemen! As I see it, you have the room spinning and me on the floor presumably inebriated with my legs spread. What in heavens is CF coming to?

Let me recap the scene that El Pinguino set:

"I think that back in the dream time they had the port but needed something to talk about...after the ladies had retired to the drawing room...thus the flag stuff...
Of course one must remember to pass the port in the correct direction... "


To clarify the situation, we have a dining table, and the ladies are retiring to the drawing room to leave the men to partake of port. The bottle has been decanted. It is placed in front of the host. As I leave the room, I glance over my shoulder and glimpse that he is passing the decanter to the gentleman on his left (aka 'port' in sailing terminology if Carsten's Wikipedia link is to be believed).

The room is not spinning, I am not on the floor, the decanter of port has clearly been passed around the table CLOCKWISE and unless someone dozes off or rudely lets it linger in front of him (neither apparently unheard of), it will continue moving around the table CLOCKWISE.

Q.E.D.

SWL
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Old 29-12-2014, 18:34   #50
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
You sirs, are no gentlemen! As I see it, you have the room spinning and me on the floor presumably inebriated with my legs spread. What in heavens is CF coming to?

Let me recap the scene that El Pinguino set:

"I think that back in the dream time they had the port but needed something to talk about...after the ladies had retired to the drawing room...thus the flag stuff...
Of course one must remember to pass the port in the correct direction... "


To clarify the situation, we have a dining table, and the ladies are retiring to the drawing room to leave the men to partake of port. The bottle has been decanted. It is placed in front of the host. As I leave the room, I glance over my shoulder and glimpse that he is passing the decanter to the gentleman on his left (aka 'port' in sailing terminology if Carsten's Wikipedia link is to be believed).

The room is not spinning, I am not on the floor, the decanter of port has clearly been passed around the table CLOCKWISE and unless someone dozes off or rudely lets it linger in front of him (neither apparently unheard of), it will continue moving around the table CLOCKWISE.

Q.E.D.

SWL
OK thread drift I know but it's important to sort this out

First and foremost, I have never been accused as being a "gentlemen" but neither am I a "cad"; just a confused poster trying to get to the facts of the event as described. I can't (and won't) speak for Carstenb but I suspect he is, at heart, a decent kind of cove.

Perhaps the Lassie is really not aware of the problems of using terms like clockwise, port, passing and so on all in one paragraph. These are terms that really don't readily mix. Clockwise is very dependant on one's point of observation. Port is particularly difficult - think turning to port, keeping it to one's port hand, port markers (dependant of pilotage systems) and so forth. Passing port to port is a nono but passing port is encouraged.

Now the Lassie has taken data fro several sources and has come to a conclusion that was never intended "you have the room spinning and me on the floor presumably inebriated with my legs spread"; however I am reminded of the old adage "if the cap fits, wear it". I make no other comment about this aspect.

Back to the port passing; as described by the Lassie, I would think if the port is travelling clockwise, and I was one of the partakers, I would be receiving the port from my starboard hand, imbibing, passing the port to my port hand and handing it to the starboard hand of the next gentlemen cad cove.

Is the port being passed to port or starboard? The Lassie seems to think its to port and Carstenb seems to think its to starboard. Me? I was thinking to starboard but now I'm not so sure. A Lassie Lady is unlikely to be wrong (and she was the one present); even if she is mistaken, one should let the Lady believe she is correct. Still perhaps the Lassie is no Lady and if so, she should be corrected if the facts so dictate.

And if she was on the floor, then the port and its direction is rather immaterial to my mind. What becomes important is how the table to floor transition occurred (submerged, sunk, went down etc) and did she strike her colours.


OK, the last part is an attempt to manoeuvre the post back to the original topic
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Old 29-12-2014, 20:15   #51
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

"Thread drift? Where? I see no thread drift"..... sez he as he puts empty port bottle to his bung eye......

Every navigator knows that in any 'end on' situation - which often occurs when too much port has been consumed- you always pass port to port.... I repeat ....port to port.

The after dinner port is also passed to the left from the passer to the passee....

Which when viewed by someone hanging from the chandeleer means it is going clockwise around the table.

Therefore the port is being passed to port, to the left, and clockwise.

Makes sense to me, I think.

QED, ETC.
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Old 29-12-2014, 20:44   #52
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Yet the port is clearly turning to starboard. There is no way (that I can remember) where I can get my boat turning in a clockwise rotation by turning to port. Perhaps a port is different?

The chandelier is a red herring and clearly a distraction although I confess that I hadn't considered it's presence or the possible Lassie's presence in relation to it. She did state she only glimpsed the port in action and this fits with the possible scenario that perhaps she only glimpsed the said port and it's direction as she went down transitioned (sp?) from the chandelier to floor.

Seriously wondering now if this eyewitness is credible...
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Old 29-12-2014, 22:23   #53
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Pinguino View Post
"Thread drift? Where? I see no thread drift"..... sez he as he puts empty port bottle to his bung eye......

Every navigator knows that in any 'end on' situation - which often occurs when too much port has been consumed- you always pass port to port.... I repeat ....port to port.

The after dinner port is also passed to the left from the passer to the passee....


Which when viewed by someone hanging from the chandeleer means it is going clockwise around the table.

Therefore the port is being passed to port, to the left, and clockwise.

Makes sense to me, I think.

QED, ETC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Yet the port is clearly turning to starboard. There is no way (that I can remember) where I can get my boat turning in a clockwise rotation by turning to port. Perhaps a port is different?

The chandelier is a red herring and clearly a distraction although I confess that I hadn't considered it's presence or the possible Lassie's presence in relation to it. She did state she only glimpsed the port in action and this fits with the possible scenario that perhaps she only glimpsed the said port and it's direction as she went down transitioned (sp?) from the chandelier to floor.

Seriously wondering now if this eyewitness is credible...
Well, better to be swinging from the chandelier than lying on the floor .

The chandelier is no red herring. Wottie, if you are more comfortable, think of it as a gimballed oil lamp hanging either over the cockpit or settee table (although I would strongly suggest you do not try swinging from that ). Carsten himself suggested "Therefore if we look at a boat from above..." before he erroneously stated "passing the port clockwise would mean the bottle is going to the right or starboard."

In simple terms we have a dining table (eg mahogany in gracious home, teak in the cockpit, wild cherry in the saloon) and a group sitting around the table partaking of some after dinner port. Forget about the boat moving, THAT is the red herring.

I glimpsed the port being passed to to the gentleman on the host's left (my new best friend El P, a true gentleman, has just confirmed that is the correct way to pass the port).

I maintain (and am again supported by the esteemed El P), that the port is moving clockwise around the table. Wottie, you and Carsten must be living in a parallel universe to be insisting the bottle is moving counter clockwise.

Wottie, as a fellow Aussie, I do know that Down Under we often buck the trend, but are you perhaps suggesting the arms of our clocks move the opposite way? (giving you a way out here ). That is the only way I can see your scenario working.

I will draw a little diagram as soon as I gather up the courage to fling off the duvet and go hunt for pen and paper. A picture tells a thousand words .

El P, the striking of colours has been mentioned. Could I suggest we divide the spoils of war? Would you prefer the Aussie flagged vessel or the Danish one? Take first pick .

SWL
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Old 29-12-2014, 23:11   #54
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Lassies love diagrams .

Dining table is illustrated complete with chandelier. The host has passed the port to his left. The bottle is clearly moving around the table clockwise .

Carsten and Wottie, are you ready to strike your colours yet?

SWL
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Old 29-12-2014, 23:53   #55
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

SWL, you must cut Wottie a bit of slack. Not only is he a helicopter sort of guy, he lives here down under where things are at best confused as to East/West, Up/down, Right/Left and CW/CCW. It is a bugger of a change for a Yank to come here, and we struggle with the altered reality... poor old Wottie deserves some compassion despite being a sort of native.

But for Carsten... crikeys, mate, what are you thinking?Port to port is always best, and it revolves clockwise around the table. BTW, if you are not a native English speaker (only guessing from your current reported location) you have a really wonderful command of the language. The ability to create puns and jokes in a foreign tongue is the mark of great ability. I salute!

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Old 30-12-2014, 00:51   #56
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
Lassies love diagrams .

Dining table is illustrated complete with chandelier. The host has passed the port to his left. The bottle is clearly moving around the table clockwise .

Carsten and Wottie, are you ready to strike your colours yet?

SWL
Never any question about the clockwise movement but as your diagrams shows, the port is turning to starboard.

As for your colours, you struck 'em waaay back when you were on the floor, limbs akimbo... jus' saying...

But if you really insist, I can also strike also mine...
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Old 30-12-2014, 00:54   #57
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Hey, Jim thanks for the support but the Lassie hasn't outdone me........yet

And I 'pecting some support from Cars.
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Old 30-12-2014, 01:34   #58
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

Yeah, Wottie,

...and I'm lurking
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Old 30-12-2014, 01:48   #59
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

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SWL, you must cut Wottie a bit of slack. Not only is he a helicopter sort of guy, he lives here down under where things are at best confused as to East/West, Up/down, Right/Left and CW/CCW. It is a bugger of a change for a Yank to come here, and we struggle with the altered reality... poor old Wottie deserves some compassion despite being a sort of native.

But for Carsten... crikeys, mate, what are you thinking?Port to port is always best, and it revolves clockwise around the table. BTW, if you are not a native English speaker (only guessing from your current reported location) you have a really wonderful command of the language. The ability to create puns and jokes in a foreign tongue is the mark of great ability. I salute!

Jim
Well, sigh...... OK I'll cut Wottie some slack . Fellow countryman and all....

Thanks for your support though Jim .

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As for your colours, you struck 'em waaay back when you were on the floor, limbs akimbo... jus' saying...
I must confess that if I am ever on the floor all I can do is surrender, but Wottie, I only had a glass of champagne before dinner and sipped no more than a splash of shiraz with the rack of lamb and minted new potatoes (I was hanging out for a little port, but I was sadly sent out of the room before any could touch my lips ).

I was steady on my feet and that little glance over my shoulder was a longing one. That is the only reason I glimpsed the port moving clockwise around the table as the host passed it to his left.

Carsten immediately disputed this is the way it generally moves although he did provide a terribly useful link to help me remember which side of a boat is the port one (or perhaps he was just rubbing it in that there was "no port left" ).

SWL
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Old 30-12-2014, 02:02   #60
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Re: courtesy vs national flag

OK OK OK, me colours are struck
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