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Old 27-10-2014, 22:49   #16
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

Mr. Carey could do a better job. He claims that cruisers don't spend money. Funny, but if you're on a mooring at the land and sea park, there is nothing to spend your money on, other than mooring and internet fees.

I'm sure Lorraine (at Blackpoint) would dispute what he says. She seems to do a good business there, and has great (free) internet. We had a wonderful Father's Day BBQ dinner there last year. We also order fresh bread from her mother. Lorraine had a Super Bowl special, and I think there were 80 boats anchored in that little harbor.

Staniel Cay Yacht Club seems to thrive on cruiser's business. It's plenty crowded there almost anytime I've been there. We anchor at Big Majors, and dinghy over. I'd hate to see 200 moorings strung out there off Pig Beach.

We spent way too much money at Nassau last year, but that was unusual for us. We had our son and his girlfriend fly over and stay for a week. We always do major provisioning in Nassau, and usually stay at Nassau Harbor Club Marina. I wouldn't mind seeing some moorings in Nassau Harbor....not great holding in a big blow (we and others dragged).

We stayed two weeks in George Town, anchored off Monument actually. It was June, so not crowded. But during winter, it's supposedly packed. Maybe moorings there would work? Especially if they got a good pump out boat and included a pump out once a week. Maybe even put in some showers somewhere close to the dinghy docks? Make it a bit like Boot Key.

We really don't stock up heavily before crossing to the Bahamas. So, maybe we are different? I don't stock up on beer, just switch to rum there. And they have good French wine at reasonable prices, which makes my wife happy.

Hopefully, the Exuma's don't change drastically. It would be a real shame.

Ralph
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Old 28-10-2014, 06:19   #17
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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He's a politician and all politicians want revenue like an alcoholic wants booze. Get a small special interest group with no political clout and you have a tax.

I'm not saying there might not be some merit to what he's saying. The world is getting more crowded. There are definitely more cruisers making a physical impact on the environment and at some point it won't be able to recover unless it's regulated. To do that you need money to enforce them and money to manage your resources.

It's when the money gets put in the general fund and doesn't help the people paying it that I get livid.

I remember some 25 years ago a friend of mine felt that with the advent of gps any idiot could now navigate and that pristine anchorages all over the world would now be destroyed. He might of been right.
Exactly. Politicians are hard wired to try and get more money from people. It's what they do. I lived in south Florida when they raised the entry fees and almost killed Bimini. Most politicians have some object constancy problems and don't look past the next five minutes when making decisions. Offer them $200 today, or $100 a day for a month, and they will say, "I'll take the $200 because that would be twice as much."

But, to me, the best places to anchor in the Bahamas, are probably unknown to this guy, and that's a good thing. All he knows are the ones that he flies over and sees a lot of boats in.
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Old 28-10-2014, 07:21   #18
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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Keep in mind that 90%+ of foreign visitors go to Nassau. The rest of the country depends heavily on yachties.
I don't know about the entire country, but I do know about a couple of places in the Bahamas. In those places, visiting fishermen contribute FAR more to the local economy than yachties do. So, maintain some humility, please.

And another thing....I visit a beach-front cottage on one of the out islands. Cruisers will anchor so close to the house that we lose our privacy. Then they take fish out of our little reef, throw the entrails and other food scraps overboard, attracting sharks, and pump their waste to wash up on our pristine beach. They fully take over and abuse the area, even though they can clearly see us at the house. And they don't spend any money at local businesses. I love cruising and I don't mind sharing, but please, don't anchor right in front of somebody's house, don't trash the area, and don't come up to the house to fill your water jugs. This is why boaters have gotten a bad reputation - there are a lot of a-holes on boats.
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Old 28-10-2014, 07:30   #19
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

The "If I can see it, it's mine" attitude. It's spreading.
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Old 28-10-2014, 07:33   #20
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

Please don't eat fish that have "Property of the Bahamas" stamped on them.
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Old 28-10-2014, 07:37   #21
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

I do a lot of provisioning in the states before going to the Bahamas, but mostly things that are hard to get in the Bahamas. I've gone for 3 seasons now and find I spend about $6,000-$8000 while in the Bahamas. That may not be much by Mr. Carey's standards, but I bet it's significant to someone. Of course $300 of that goes directly to the government for my entry fee and since I usually spend a week or so in the Exuma land and sea park another $140 goes to the BNT for mooring fees. The remainder goes directly to local businesses. If I was suddenly required to spend $20 a night for a mooring or anchoring fee anywhere in the Bahamas who would this money go to? The government? The BNT? It certainly would not go to local businesses. How long do you think the laundry run by Ida at Blackpoint, Loraines, Club Scorpio, the blackpoint Grocery store, etc would stay in business If I was forced to spend half of my budget on mooring/anchoring fees rather than in their businesses. I admit I spend almost $1000 to provision in the states before leaving for the Bahamas, but that is only about 10% of what I spend once I'm there.

In Georgetown there is a group called the Elizabeth Harbor Conservation Partnership. This group has done some good things, but there is a subset of members that is definitely anti-cruiser. If you go to one of their meetings it is quickly obvious which individuals these are. It was pretty clear to me that these are not business people and only a few business people were at the the meetings. The EHCP is the group responsible for getting the pumpout boat and an actual sewage treatment plant in Georgetown. One of their major efforts now is to get local businesses to hook up to it. They currently run their pipes directly into the Harbor. This group definitely is in favor of mooring balls. They are rather convinced that anchors are damaging sea grass and causing siltation on their reefs. There may be some damage to the sea grass from anchors but the primary problem is siltation. Thee is no doubt that anchors contribute a bit to the siltation issue, but the primary cause of siltation in Elizabeth harbor are mailboats and ferries. If you've ever watched one come in or out, there is a huge plume of mud behind every one of them because the channel is simply too shallow. The fix is to dredge a proper channel, but since it is conservationists dogma that dredging is a bad thing it never enters their mind. It is much easier to blame outsiders for your problems than to actually do something to solve the problems or even actually identify the cause. I too am concerned about the siltation issues in Elizabeth Harbor because it is definitely having a negative effect on the seagrass and reefs, but cruisers are not the primary problem. The problem is that the channel dredged by the US Navy in WWII has silted in and cargo is now delivered on big ships with large props and marginal drafts instead of the local sailboats as it was 70 years ago.
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Old 28-10-2014, 07:49   #22
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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I don't know about the entire country, but I do know about a couple of places in the Bahamas. In those places, visiting fishermen contribute FAR more to the local economy than yachties do. So, maintain some humility, please.

And another thing....I visit a beach-front cottage on one of the out islands. Cruisers will anchor so close to the house that we lose our privacy. Then they take fish out of our little reef, throw the entrails and other food scraps overboard, attracting sharks, and pump their waste to wash up on our pristine beach. They fully take over and abuse the area, even though they can clearly see us at the house. And they don't spend any money at local businesses. I love cruising and I don't mind sharing, but please, don't anchor right in front of somebody's house, don't trash the area, and don't come up to the house to fill your water jugs. This is why boaters have gotten a bad reputation - there are a lot of a-holes on boats.


I'd go a little further and say there are a lot of a-holes period, being on a boat doesn't make you not an a-hole.
Society has changed, politeness and civility have all but disappeared, you hear filthy language everywhere, questionable clothing and morals. Ward and June Cleaver just don't live here anymore, things were a lot more polite back then.
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Old 28-10-2014, 07:57   #23
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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I'd go a little further and say there are a lot of a-holes period, being on a boat doesn't make you not an a-hole.
Society has changed, politeness and civility have all but disappeared, you hear filthy language everywhere, questionable clothing and morals. Ward and June Cleaver just don't live here anymore, things were a lot more polite back then.
Yep more a-holes on boats and land, and in the same proportions.

And, often they run into each other.
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Old 28-10-2014, 09:02   #24
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

Mr. Carey issued an apology yesterday: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas - UPDATE | Bahamas | Waterwayguide.com News Updates
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Old 28-10-2014, 09:20   #25
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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Ohhhhh some one got In Trouuuubleeeeeeee
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Old 28-10-2014, 10:28   #26
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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Yeah, but did he apologize for it being a bad idea, or for just being a bad idea to say it where he could be quoted?

I fear the seed has been planted.
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Old 28-10-2014, 10:34   #27
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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I don't know about the entire country, but I do know about a couple of places in the Bahamas. In those places, visiting fishermen contribute FAR more to the local economy than yachties do. So, maintain some humility, please.

And another thing....I visit a beach-front cottage on one of the out islands. Cruisers will anchor so close to the house that we lose our privacy. Then they take fish out of our little reef, throw the entrails and other food scraps overboard, attracting sharks, and pump their waste to wash up on our pristine beach. They fully take over and abuse the area, even though they can clearly see us at the house. And they don't spend any money at local businesses. I love cruising and I don't mind sharing, but please, don't anchor right in front of somebody's house, don't trash the area, and don't come up to the house to fill your water jugs. This is why boaters have gotten a bad reputation - there are a lot of a-holes on boats.

The other side of this coin is some a--hole built a cottage on our favorite beach in our favorite anchorage and now rents it out to other a--holes that think they own the entire cove. Maybe cruisers we using that anchorage for 50 years before the cottage was built and ruined the beach. I noticed how you said "our little reef". Did your rental contract specify that you were renting the reef as well as the cottage? Did you also rent the anchorage? Did you follow everyone in the anchorage around to see if they were spending money in the local businesses? I don't know which anchorage you are referring to so I can't say why they would want to anchor if front of the cottage in question, but maybe it's sheltered from a particular wind direction that makes it the best place to anchor. As for sewage being dumped on your beach, I wonder where the sewage from the cottage goes? How many sewage treatment plants will you find in the Bahamas? I bet there are none in the "out Islands" I certainly hope you didn't take a dump for the entire time you were there because odds are your sewage was going into the water and contaminating the beach for all of those poor yachties. I might have a little sympathy if you were a Bahamian, but you are just another f---ing tourist like the rest of us.
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Old 28-10-2014, 10:47   #28
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

The guy was right. He shouldn't have apologized.

The Bahamas can and should charge as much as they want. If you don't like it, don't go.
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Old 28-10-2014, 10:57   #29
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

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I noticed how you said "our little reef". Did your rental contract specify that you were renting the reef as well as the cottage? Did you also rent the anchorage? .
I was thinking the same thing when I read that. They rent reefs in the Bahamas? Eight trips there and I didn't know that.
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Old 28-10-2014, 11:14   #30
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Re: Contagion spreads from Florida to Exumas

Crikey! The Bahamas are ok to cruise but they are not the be all and end all!
Get the white floppy things up your masts and come cruising!

Here in the caribbean islands its cheaper, more diverse cultures 30 nms away and its not flat as Budweiser.

Happy hour beers here at a waterside bar are $2 and then we go on to another bar where they are $1! Good waterfront bars!
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