Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-01-2011, 21:50   #31
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadlaroche View Post
Where are condoms contraband ?
OK. Between this question and the "When is your dinghy too big" thread, I am really finding it hard to contain myself. Both just seem to be wide open doors for the right person.
__________________

__________________
easterly38 is offline  
Old 18-01-2011, 22:19   #32
Registered User
 
JDGreenlee's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Texas
Boat: PSC 37 Crealock #149
Posts: 55
Couldn't help falling down the rabbit hole.

Asking if one should carry firearms aboard begs the question of how to use them. Not technically. But conceptually.

While maybe not obvious, in my mind there is a subtle difference between piracy and robbery. Either can be violent, but while piracy is less common, it is more likely to include kidknapping and/or murder. The countertactics for each differ - and should be discussed and rehearsed in advance.

Since robbery, I assert, most often occurs at night while at anchor by locals, wounding by firearm or killing by any means an intruder will most likely have immediate potential for mob reaction. IMHO, using lethal force during a robbery in a second or third world country may be unwise - that's not to say you shouldn't defend yourself, but rather do so without firearms. In the recent tragic case of the Canadian mentioned above, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood he was shot from close range without warning, and therefore, would have had to be wearing his firearm to have had a chance to deter the pirates. Therefore, I argue that firearms are more useful on the open seas where there are fewer people, and less useful in areas of more frequent crime. How weird.

Wounding or killing an attacker "at sea" poses less risk of local legal issues since piracy is most prevalent where there is no rule of law. But it requires bigger toys. Discretion is the better part of valor, so if the binnoculars show the bad guys to have RPG's and/or AK-47's, then it might be wise to evade only. Otherwise, he loses who runs out of diesel, ammo, heart beats, or sinks first.

If one selects firearms as a mode of personal protection at sea, then one might prefer something that can sink a RIB at reasonable distance, say a semi-automatic handgun [oh, maybe 9mm?]. Firing from the helm while erect is unwise, it is better to get small and support your arms for precision (very difficult, you have the engine at full speed and are taking evasive action, right?). Also, rats on a slowly sinking boat are motivated to quickly seek another boat - like yours.

Should one fire a warning shot over their bow? Out-numbered and being chased at full speed one might argue such courtesies are unnecessary - but I suggest that he who fires first should fire a warning shot even if the bad guys don't play fair. If you are unsuccessful detering or quickly sinking them (and there may be three or more RIBs in a pirate attack), then multiple large-capacity ammo clips would become very handy. No time to fill the clip. Better to plug and play. And you'll want to light them up at night, of course, but be advised that he who holds the flood light will very likely draw fire.

Did I mention that you and your convoy mates should not shoot each other while all of this is going on? And heaven forbid mistaking a friendly for a foe - they refused to return your multiple hails before you opened fire, right?

Where is that damn rabbit? He was here awhile ago. Gotta go.
__________________

__________________
JDGreenlee is offline  
Old 18-01-2011, 23:02   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,310
Images: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDGreenlee View Post
Couldn't help falling down the rabbit hole.

Asking if one should carry firearms aboard begs the question of how to use them. Not technically. But conceptually.

While maybe not obvious, in my mind there is a subtle difference between piracy and robbery. Either can be violent, but while piracy is less common, it is more likely to include kidknapping and/or murder. The countertactics for each differ - and should be discussed and rehearsed in advance.

Since robbery, I assert, most often occurs at night while at anchor by locals, wounding by firearm or killing by any means an intruder will most likely have immediate potential for mob reaction. IMHO, using lethal force during a robbery in a second or third world country may be unwise - that's not to say you shouldn't defend yourself, but rather do so without firearms. In the recent tragic case of the Canadian mentioned above, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understood he was shot from close range without warning, and therefore, would have had to be wearing his firearm to have had a chance to deter the pirates. Therefore, I argue that firearms are more useful on the open seas where there are fewer people, and less useful in areas of more frequent crime. How weird.

Wounding or killing an attacker "at sea" poses less risk of local legal issues since piracy is most prevalent where there is no rule of law. But it requires bigger toys. Discretion is the better part of valor, so if the binnoculars show the bad guys to have RPG's and/or AK-47's, then it might be wise to evade only. Otherwise, he loses who runs out of diesel, ammo, heart beats, or sinks first.

If one selects firearms as a mode of personal protection at sea, then one might prefer something that can sink a RIB at reasonable distance, say a semi-automatic handgun [oh, maybe 9mm?]. Firing from the helm while erect is unwise, it is better to get small and support your arms for precision (very difficult, you have the engine at full speed and are taking evasive action, right?). Also, rats on a slowly sinking boat are motivated to quickly seek another boat - like yours.

Should one fire a warning shot over their bow? Out-numbered and being chased at full speed one might argue such courtesies are unnecessary - but I suggest that he who fires first should fire a warning shot even if the bad guys don't play fair. If you are unsuccessful detering or quickly sinking them (and there may be three or more RIBs in a pirate attack), then multiple large-capacity ammo clips would become very handy. No time to fill the clip. Better to plug and play. And you'll want to light them up at night, of course, but be advised that he who holds the flood light will very likely draw fire.

Did I mention that you and your convoy mates should not shoot each other while all of this is going on? And heaven forbid mistaking a friendly for a foe - they refused to return your multiple hails before you opened fire, right?

Where is that damn rabbit? He was here awhile ago. Gotta go.
what? thought this was a hunting post? wabbits should never be mentioned at sea very bad luck,old cornish superstition.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline  
Old 18-01-2011, 23:09   #34
RTB
Registered User
 
RTB's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home port Kemah, TX Currently in Brunswick Georgia
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 1,509
Images: 2
Your best bet is to stay well offshore, then come straight in to port. If you encounter the bad guys at sea, you will probably lose....unless you have one of these Don't daze me, bro! Police experiment with non-lethal Dazer Laser
RTB is offline  
Old 18-01-2011, 23:12   #35
Registered User
 
ovrmyhead's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Pacific Coast of Mexico
Boat: Union Polaris cutter, 36'
Posts: 80

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cotemar View Post
Guns are just to much trouble.
Carry pepper spray when walking around and have a larger can onboard.

Mark
I couldnt agree more. My wife has a can of bear spray at home. If she needs to she is more likely to use it than a gun, doesnt need to worry about shooting through a wall and hitting a kid, her aim sucks but thats okay with that can, and best of all if I come home drunk at 3am I wont be looking at a hole in my chest
__________________
ovrmyhead is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 00:51   #36
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
I find carrying a gun on board very useful. It's a great help on a dark night on a Lee shore in a rising gale and the furlers jammed .....!

Dave
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 01:00   #37
RTB
Registered User
 
RTB's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Home port Kemah, TX Currently in Brunswick Georgia
Boat: Hunter 36
Posts: 1,509
Images: 2
But Dave, the pirates are waiting for you on that lee shore....all is lost. Might as well just shoot yourself, eh?
RTB is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 02:23   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 239
Love the gun threads. Facts folks: At sea you're not likely to need a gun unless your off Somalia, then unless you have a fully auto weapon able to shoot RPGs you're probably screwed. In port when you need them most countries either take them until you leave or put them in a bonded locker. If you are lucky enough to get it out of the locker, loaded, and pop the perp you are screwed. Don't declare it pop the SOB you're screwed. For those Mr. Macho types that say I would rather be in jail then dead, guess what third world jails are not like the US. Most of us are not spring chickens there is a good chance of not living through any time in a rat infested hellhole or becoming someones old lady. Either way you're screwed. Although I think a lot of people would have weapons on board if things were different,but as of now I can't think of any positives to having them on board and there is a boatload of reasons not to.
__________________
s/vfootloose is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 02:45   #39
Registered User
 
Patient's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 185
I wouldn't think of not declaring something of that magnitude. From most of the literature available online as long as you have it stowed properly its not that big of a hassle.

So, just out of curiosity and staying a bit on topic.

Is there a company that sells firearms lockers that work for a boat? Everything I have seen is basically a 200lb safe.

According to Noonsite, most places require a "Lockable" area that is realtively "break in" free. I have also seen mention of "Customs Tape" being applied to the locker to indicated illegal removal etc etc.

So considering the specificaions I would think the following would be nice to have:

  • The ability to mount via bolt from the inside to a verticle surface.
    Sealed from the elements.
    A pad lock eyelet would be preferable for customs tags (Tamper rings).
    Rigid but not extremely heavy.
    Tall enough to fit a shotgun and possibly a small shelf on the top for ammunition, papers, etc.


Anyone using something similar? I will update my post if I ever find something that fits that criteria.
__________________
Patient is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 03:20   #40
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 158
yikes? off ten kings

whats this ? worried about undeclared firearms? yea ,i done that, what is the big deal,,500 fine,,who cares as vi bought the same chunk back from the cops ,,yea,,now they drink my booze,,two choices in some areasL>get murdered or protect yourself and those you PROFESS TO LOVE ,,yea,,serious isnt it ,,i kill,,
__________________
pullord is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 04:45   #41
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,305
All this is just way off the mark.

Do a little strength training and if anyone attacks you swing that old style anchor at them and take their head off. Any old style anchor should be enough to even scare away a whole boat full of pirates!

PS - leave any resulting blood on the anchor afterwards so eveyone can see you are a badass
__________________
sailorboy1 is online now  
Old 19-01-2011, 04:50   #42
CF Adviser
Moderator Emeritus
 
Hud3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Virginia
Boat: Island Packet 380, now sold
Posts: 8,929
Images: 49
We always cruised with our Boat Cat. Feisty little devil, she was. Nobody ever messed with us.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Hud
Hud3 is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 05:09   #43
Registered User
 
smallyachts's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Land O Lakes, FL
Boat: Samson C Ranger - "Tin Cup" & Samson C-Farer - "Sam McGee"
Posts: 159
Not paranoid, scared or intimidated but:

1 Qt glass bottles filled with a homemade "napalm" brew labeled as "Sailor Sams Magic wood finish" and plenty of flares for the flare gun.

High Pressure/volume pump on separate flexible diesel fuel line with a stream dispersion nozzle conveniently and securely located topsides, and plenty of flares for the flare gun.

And a few "specially modified" flares for the flare guns if it comes down to an onboard confrontation.

Multiple convenient flare gun stowage locations, along with flares/modified flares.

All of the above are only effective in close or extremely close encounters.
__________________
SmallYachts
Sailors, Adventurers & Friends
Our hulls aren't afraid of things that go "bump" in the night!
smallyachts is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 06:13   #44
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hud3
We always cruised with our Boat Cat. Feisty little devil, she was. Nobody ever messed with us.
Damn! I thought MY boat cat looked mean... :-)
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline  
Old 19-01-2011, 06:22   #45
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,189
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate

Quote:
Originally Posted by chadlaroche View Post
Where are condoms contraband ?
Vatican City.....???
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is online now  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Improvised Weapons S/V Aphrodite Health, Safety & Related Gear 171 03-04-2011 17:45
Weapons of 'Mast Destruction' jyoung Construction, Maintenance & Refit 12 09-12-2010 17:24
Weapons and Cruising DangerCell Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 118 02-03-2010 05:27



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:40.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.