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Old 02-01-2009, 13:45   #1
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Compulsory tracking.

With the arrival of the SPOT tracking device on the market it seems affordable technology is available to enable governments to track citizens for what ever reasons they deem justifiable.In our case it would be the cost of search and rescue.And I am not talking about the US government here.I think there are many bureaucrats in Australia and NZ who would like to know exactly where boaties are all the time.And I suspect this is the case in many other countries around the world.You know once it is instituted by one country it becomes more feasible in other countries.Chile already requires a form of tracking for every foreigner sailing in Patagonia and they could easily require an electronic upgrade of their system.I am not an alarmist who thinks this is going to happen to us this year or next but am I wrong to think it will eventually happen?
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Old 02-01-2009, 15:50   #2
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PORTLAND, Ore. – Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring devices in 300 vehicles
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Old 02-01-2009, 16:42   #3
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Originally Posted by nonam View Post
With the arrival of the SPOT tracking device on the market it seems affordable technology is available to enable governments to track citizens for what ever reasons they deem justifiable.In our case it would be the cost of search and rescue.And I am not talking about the US government here.I think there are many bureaucrats in Australia and NZ who would like to know exactly where boaties are all the time.And I suspect this is the case in many other countries around the world.You know once it is instituted by one country it becomes more feasible in other countries.Chile already requires a form of tracking for every foreigner sailing in Patagonia and they could easily require an electronic upgrade of their system.I am not an alarmist who thinks this is going to happen to us this year or next but am I wrong to think it will eventually happen?
That is the reason for AIS 'b'. Some doubt it, and are happily going out to buy the gear... I believe it is only a matter of time until it is required.
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Old 02-01-2009, 16:48   #4
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Great thread but it will end up political I fear.
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Old 02-01-2009, 19:14   #5
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.I think there are many bureaucrats in Australia and NZ who would like to know exactly where boaties are all the time.
Yes, but Aussies would tell the pollies to get nicked! LOL

We arrived at a harbour today and after crossing the bar (river mouth opening that sand shoals) was asked by the coast guard if we had submitted a tracking sheet from our last port of call.

Of course we didn't.

I know they are trying to keep everyone safe. But we don't want it turning into a situation where you have to clear in and out of every port.

Bureacrats make more bureacrats than tabbys make kittens!

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Old 02-01-2009, 19:17   #6
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can you guys say "paranoid"?
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Old 02-01-2009, 19:32   #7
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can you guys say "paranoid"?
How many syllables is that one?
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Old 02-01-2009, 19:34   #8
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Yes, but Aussies would tell the pollies to get nicked! LOL

We arrived at a harbour today and after crossing the bar (river mouth opening that sand shoals) was asked by the coast guard if we had submitted a tracking sheet from our last port of call.

Of course we didn't.

I know they are trying to keep everyone safe. But we don't want it turning into a situation where you have to clear in and out of every port.

Bureacrats make more bureacrats than tabbys make kittens!

Mark
I wish you were kidding about that.
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Old 02-01-2009, 19:40   #9
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That is the reason for AIS 'b'. Some doubt it, and are happily going out to buy the gear... I believe it is only a matter of time until it is required.
One of the reasons to be sure. The U.S. gov't has actually been pretty open in their discussions with respect to AIS and port security.

But the reason I have an AIS receiver, and am currently installing an AIS-B transponder is that it is a valuable tool for my safety. Don't let political hyper-vigilance blind you to the value of this system. If things get really bad you can always pull the plug.
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:00   #10
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Isnt there a member here who quotes Ben Franklin as having said "anyone who would give up freedom for security deserves to have neither".
What freedom could we lose?
In NZ the govt already charges entry fees for some national parks.They could easily expand that.Boaters could be taxed for anchoring/sailing near parks and reserves.
Actually there is a ton of freedom that could be lost.
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Old 03-01-2009, 01:20   #11
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Isnt there a member here who quotes Ben Franklin as having said "anyone who would give up freedom for security deserves to have neither".
What freedom could we lose?
In NZ the govt already charges entry fees for some national parks.They could easily expand that.Boaters could be taxed for anchoring/sailing near parks and reserves.
Actually there is a ton of freedom that could be lost.
"Could be lost" -- Yes, of course it could. If there is evidence that the gov't is using this technology in some way that actually impedes my freedom, I will take the appropriate action, starting with turning off the "transmit" switch.

And yes, by that time it will be mandatory and I will wish I had actively worked to stop that requirement. But it's not a requirement now, and may never be.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it really creates a slippery slope. Do we not use our cellphones because our location and call history is being traced (in the USA)? It seems that the outrage over that episode was pretty short-lived here. I don't like it, but I've decided to trade that bit of freedom for convenience (not even for security!).

I'm sure that you and I could come up with a list of hundreds of real and potential infringements on our absolute liberty. I don't personally think that AIS is very high on that list, at least not as it currently stands, and AIS does have real benefits for me now.
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Old 03-01-2009, 03:36   #12
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PORTLAND, Ore. – Oregon is among a growing number of states exploring ways to tax drivers based on the number of miles they drive instead of how much gas they use, even going so far as to install GPS monitoring devices in 300 vehicles
Thanks - I wasn't aware of this innovative tax proposal.

States eye taxing miles driven, not gasoline
Tax miles driven instead of gasoline? - Life- msnbc.com

N.C. looks at taxing drivers by the mile
N.C. looks at taxing drivers by the mile | CharlotteObserver.com
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Old 03-01-2009, 08:37   #13
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Thanks - I wasn't aware of this innovative tax proposal.

States eye taxing miles driven, not gasoline
Tax miles driven instead of gasoline? - Life- msnbc.com

N.C. looks at taxing drivers by the mile
N.C. looks at taxing drivers by the mile | CharlotteObserver.com

Cool idea.
As the cars get more efficient and use less gas per mile (less use = less tax) there is a way to raise taxes.
Cool.
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:27   #14
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They've been doing something similar (raising taxes) on the San Francisco area toll bridges. Over the years they have actually reduced the bridge traffic through a campaign of carpools and mass-transit (the gas prices had their effect too). Unfortunately, the district loses money on the mass-transit, so with the loss of bridge tolls, which pay for mass-transit, this has been a double-whammy.

The solution: Ever-increasing bridge tolls.

Of course the money has to come from somewhere, and, for example our high-speed ferrys could probably not charge passengers for the actual cost of operation, so something's got to give somewhere...
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Old 03-01-2009, 11:43   #15
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Cool.
NOT! For the pizza delivery guy or anyone else that provides a delivery service. The price of your next delivery would be reflected in their tax. The price of the gas is bad enough!

As for privacy, your computer right now can be traced to where you are, so big deal. True freedom is like what Janis Joplin sang "Freedom is another word for nothing left to lose". In another words true freedom is to own nothing for 'things' are the burdens of life, especially boats!

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