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Old 30-08-2009, 12:45   #1
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Competence Certificates - What Is Equivalent?

How does an International Certificate of Competence compare with other esp. US qualifications? Is it like a USCG Aux basic boating cert, an ASA cruising cert, a USCG OUPV or Master's Cert, or an RYA Masters Cert? We have been trying to determine what is actually interchangeable but few we've asked seem to have the answer and no two answers are the same.

(I posted this question in another thread so please forgive me if you see it twice.)
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Old 30-08-2009, 12:54   #2
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In UK terms, an ICC is granted automatically if you have an RYA Day Skipper certificate - which is the lowest practical sailing test. furthermore, as some of the Day Skipper exam is conducted under engine, the ICC is issued for both sail and power!

Thus as a proof of competence, this is about one degree above one of those instant university degrees that you can get from the internet for a very small outlay of funds
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Old 05-09-2009, 19:45   #3
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actually no , The ICC direct assessment is the lowest test in the UK in practice, much easier to get that the day skipper , which is a very good cert to have BTW.

sailing certs are not interchangable there not even cross recognised. Theres no requirement for one countries admin to recognise another countries certs. Even the ICC is only technically valid when sailing your own boat. ie its not a charter certificate as the charter boat is typically not the same flag as your nationality. Thats why its rare to be asked for certs of competency, there isnt any agreement on what should be acceptable. in general if your own country requires a cert then foreign countries may require you to produce it, but in practice theres little checking

Thats why you are getting many "answers" the correct answer is that you cant ask that question in the fact place.!!
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Old 05-09-2009, 20:09   #4
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GoBoatingNow has it right. There is no international certification required. Certification is still a desirable goal. It gets you started right and that just is never a bad idea.
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Old 05-09-2009, 20:33   #5
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I don't have any competency certificates.

Maybe I should just swallow the anchor because nobody gave me permission to go sailing, and nobody certified me as knowledgeable in the ways of the sea.

If I was going to pass out certificates, I would certify that people had common sense and good judgment. There would be a certificate that attested to the fact that you are not stupid.

I would also want a certificate from an authority that did not certify the competency of the Captain of the Exxon Valdiz.
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Old 05-09-2009, 21:49   #6
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Since you feel left out Dave, I could always print out something for you. For an extra fee (cheaper than the University of Phoenix), I will even put fancy scroll work around the edges and sign it for you.



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Old 05-09-2009, 22:38   #7
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Maybe I should just swallow the anchor because nobody gave me permission to go sailing, and nobody certified me as knowledgeable in the ways of the sea.
Certification is about minimum qualifications. If it would help we could certify you as minimally competent. It's all only a place to start from. After that you should understand all the things you really don't have a clue about and be able to work through those issues on your own. It means you can be dangerous yet you might have a chance.
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Old 05-09-2009, 22:52   #8
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Even on the professional level, national certificates of competency and examinations vary so widely that it is a joke.

What one mariner must have achieved honestly to compete with others who possess what I would only call “Certificates of Convenience” that are issued in many 3rd world countries.... really opens your eyes.

Courses that just give you the exam answers instead of teaching you the subject are also a joke and something I think the US is a bit guilty of.

Even as a yachtsman I believe you need more than “common sense and good judgment” to be considered competent.

You need to have read or self studied pretty much the same thing a professional mariner should know (with the exception of things like cargo work) to be considered competent enough to take a yacht anywhere.

Here is what I would consider a course Syllabus for ocean going yachtsman’s competency.

  1. Rules of the Road: Know and understand the rules intimately especially Rule 2 (a)
  2. Navigation and Chart Work:
  3. Marine Emergency Duties: (Firefighting/1st Aid-CPR/Liferaft-Survival /Seamanship…etc etc)
  4. Ship/Yacht handling: For heavy weather safety as well as performance.
  5. Electronic Navigation: (understanding all the fixed and variable errors of equipment used and how to troubleshoot them)
  6. Meteorology:
  7. Stability:
  8. Marine Engineering: (understanding of basic components and how to troubleshoot)
  9. Ship Master’s Business: Basic Marine Law and legal responsibilities to travel overseas

It is common sense and good judgment to study all of these things and nothing frustrates me more than a yachtsman who feels he can get by on good intent and luck.

On a ship, those types scare me.
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Old 06-09-2009, 00:37   #9
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I hold several RYA certificates but feel much less of a sailor than someone like Dave (maxingout), which just goes to show that experience is everything. I have a PhD in common sense though
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Old 06-09-2009, 02:50   #10
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From a practical point Day Skipper and the US Sailing and ASA Cruising Certificates are equivalent; the theory component of Day Skipper is far superior, especially in areas of tides and tidal streams.

However, none of these qualifications does more than giving you the basic information so that you can start the long and sometimes very hard journey to competence...

"Competence means that you make a fool of yourself less often!"

Phil
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Old 06-09-2009, 15:46   #11
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Certification is about minimum qualifications
As a holder of RYA YM offshore and YM Ocean Yachtmaster qualifications, I wouldnt agree that these are mimimum qualifications. The represent the peak of what is available in the purely non-comercial sector. Yes compulsory certification tends to result in a mimimising effect , but certs like YM are done on a voluntary basis by only a small percentage of sailors.
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Old 06-09-2009, 16:29   #12
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Careful 'Goboatingnow', you are dangerously close to explaining to our American bretheren how vastly superior YachtMaster Ocean is as a sailing qualification compared to a US 100 ton with its sailing endorsement.

Phil a RYA YM Ocean
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:27   #13
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This ICC - anybody knows a place on the web where I can read on what levels / skills / training they offer / certify? I tried last year and found hardly any usable information.

b.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:44   #14
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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
As a holder of RYA YM offshore and YM Ocean Yachtmaster qualifications, I wouldnt agree that these are mimimum qualifications. The represent the peak of what is available in the purely non-comercial sector. Yes compulsory certification tends to result in a mimimising effect , but certs like YM are done on a voluntary basis by only a small percentage of sailors.
I also hold the Yachtmaster offshore and would recognise that these are not the minimum qualification, but also fully recognise that this is merely a starting point.

For example in a former life, I had to pass a rigorous IRPCS exam every year. Anyone who reckons that they have achieved the maximum qualification is isolating himself from further knowledge.

Any day you do not learn something new is wasted.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:45   #15
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This ICC - anybody knows a place on the web where I can read on what levels / skills / training they offer / certify? I tried last year and found hardly any usable information.b.
You could purchase this
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