COLREGS and navigations lights

[Zai]

Rule 25(b)Sailboats - Optional Tri-color Light:
Sailing vessels less than 20 meters in length may use a combination mast top tri-color light in place of the standard red and green sidelights and white stern light.

[Zai]

I think the confusion is between a tri color light and a mast head light.

The tricolor can be used instead of the deck level lights, while the mast head light can be used in combination with the deck level lights.

The "steamimg light" is for vessels under power.

Sorry about the multiple posts...I am not that internet savy.

[Olde Chief]

If you believe that ALL these big cargo vessels have a person who is alive and awake and not drunk or on drugs, you have a big surprise coming to you... I know of one such case that happed in the Catalina Channel. No One Saw it happen and it was only discovered when debris was found and after a harbor inspection of incoming vessels from the previous night... The offend vessel and crew were detained fo several weeks for inspection ... This could happen to YOU, if your port deals with foreign flagged vessels....

[transmitterdan]

Originally Posted by Olde Chief

If you believe that ALL these big cargo vessels have a person who is alive and awake and not drunk or on drugs, you have a big surprise coming to you..

In that case what does it matter where your lights are? But that isn't the point of this thread. We are talking about correct placement and usage of navigation lights.

AIS can help quite a lot in avoiding collisions at night.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by Zai

I think the confusion is between a tri color light and a mast head light.
...

Unfortunately "masthead" light is a confusing term since it does not actually refer to the light on top of a sailboat mast, but rather the steaming light. For that reason, when teaching COLREGS, I try to avoid the term "masthead light" all together.

[carstenb]

Having just encountered a sailboat with both a toplantern and sidelights I can tell you it is very confusing. Are there 2 boats? just one? and sonce he was motoring with a steaming light, he was showing Green over white with sidelights below (Aha! a trawler!)

No just a bad seaman.

either or guys, not both.

Actually the tricolor toplantern is usually used by sailboats that sail in places where sailboats are not often encountered (so as to be seen from a greater distance)

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by belizesailor

Unfortunately "masthead" light is a confusing term since it does not actually refer to the light on top of a sailboat mast, but rather the steaming light. For that reason, when teaching COLREGS, I try to avoid the term "masthead light" all together.

I am amazed and bemused that the term 'masthead' is used at all in the regs... some of them cruise liners have what I would call the 'frd steaming light' mounted on the bridge front and some have the after one on the funnel... indeed some of them don't even have masts.

Re the red and green thingo at the top of the mast... that was introduced for use by large sailing ships such as Esmeralda and Eagle etc... not for use by lesser mortals

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Olde Chief

Granted, The COLREGS are the standard, and it says you can have both the side lights and the Tri-Color Mast head lights on your boat, but you can only use them under certain condition. However, I myself would use both at all times, as a sailboat, because I want to be seen specially, at night and in fog. There is an old rule that says it is better to be seen than dead. I will pay the ticket if someone wants to write me up...at least I will be alive, and I have been boarded by the USCG many times and no one has ever complained or written me up. Your Choice.

In favor of your arguments, I've heard commercial skippers, more than once, say that they would like sailing yachts to be lit up as much as possible at night, even if the lights are non-standard.

Against your argument, I agree with FamilyVan and others that the purpose of nav lights is not just to emit light, but to show what kind of vessel there is, in what nav status, and what aspect. If you show non-standard lights, you are not only risking a ticket, you are risking creating confusion. For example, about whether there is one or two vessels out there, how far away, etc. Or even worse, about your aspect.

So in my opinion, if you're worried you're not emitting enough light, buy stronger nav lights (there's no rule against that). Rather than showing lights in a non-standard way.


And if you're counting on lots of nav lights to make up for not emitting AIS, or having a good radar reflector -- I would also suggest rethinking that.

[DeepFrz]

Olde Chief, why don't you just change your top lights to Red over Green all around lights. You can then burn your lower sidelights as well and you will meet the colregs.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Olde Chief, why don't you just change your top lights to Red over Green all around lights. You can then burn your lower sidelights as well and you will meet the colregs.

Would need a bit of modification.... they are meant to be ( if the yacht is under 20 metres) 1 metre apart. Just changing the lens to a red and a green would give you...... purple

I knew someone who did just that.... he was no end disappointed with the result.


(Annex 1)

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Would need a bit of modification.... they are meant to be ( if the yacht is under 20 metres) 1 metre apart.

Hogwash, and no one said anything about just changing the lens. They are two separate 360 deg. lights, one on top of the other. No mention of length in the colregs Rule 25, only of sailing vessel. They do not have to be 1 meter apart on any size boat.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Hogwash, and no one said anything about just changing the lens. They are two separate 360 deg. lights, one on top of the other. No mention of length in the colregs Rule 25, only of sailing vessel. They do not have to be 1 meter apart on any size boat.

Check the Annex 1, 2, (i)


(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced as follows:
(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, not be less than 4 metres above the hull;
(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, not be less than 2 metres above the gunwale;

http://www.imcbrokers.com/frontend/f...-ii-iii-iv.pdf

And a Happy Hogwash to you as well, is that a Canadian holiday?

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Check the Annex 1, 2, (i)


(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced as follows:
(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, not be less than 4 metres above the hull;
(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, not be less than 2 metres above the gunwale;

http://www.imcbrokers.com/frontend/f...-ii-iii-iv.pdf

That Section of the Annex refers only to power driven vessels. I have not seen anywhere that pleasure power boats can carry vertically spaced mast head Red over Green navigation lights. Have you?

And a Happy Hogwash to you as well, is that a Canadian holiday?

That Section of the Annex refers only to power driven vessels. I have not seen anywhere that pleasure power boats can carry vertically spaced mast head Red over Green navigation lights. Have you?

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by Olde Chief

Back again to confusion factors. It all depends on how ones boat is wired and the COLREGS it was built under, and how these rules were interpreted. You have to remember the COLREGS are written in conjunction with many countries and the translations are not always perfect. So my interpretation is not perfect, but is based on what I feel is the best protection of my boat and passengers, and is derived from my personal experience involving rescues and accidents at sea. Many know more than I do but I have never been run into or had to call on help from the Coast Guard...

Just to keep things specific, I take you are in the US and your boat is registered in the US; correct? Then US law applies and you do not need to interpret or translate any document prepared in or by another country or in another language. COLREGS are not directly binding on you. US law is binding on you.

As it happens, when the US signed (in English and French just to keep the Frogs happy) the 1972 Convention it agreed to implement rules binding on you and I that follow the text of COLREGS. The US did exactly as promised, and you can see the result in 33 CFR Part 83, which follows very closely (if not exactly) the text of the Convention that the US agreed to implement:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text...t-83/subpart-C

If yo do not want to have compliant lights be everyone´s guest, but you are unlikely to persuade anyone that there is an interpretation of foreign texts or translation that makes your lights compliant.

[svlamorocha]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Check the Annex 1, 2, (i)


(i) When the Rules prescribe two or three lights to be carried in a vertical line, they shall be spaced as follows:
(i) on a vessel of 20 metres in length or more such lights shall be spaced not less than 2 metres apart, and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, not be less than 4 metres above the hull;
(ii) on a vessel of less than 20 metres in length such lights shall be spaced not less than 1 metre apart and the lowest of these lights shall, except where a towing light is required, not be less than 2 metres above the gunwale;

http://www.imcbrokers.com/frontend/f...-ii-iii-iv.pdf

And a Happy Hogwash to you as well, is that a Canadian holiday?

IMHO Pinguino is spot on as usual. Only caveat is that the Yanks tweaked (or messed up) their text "for consumers" to keep the spacing at 1 meter regardless of length:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/84.03