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Old 06-03-2013, 16:35   #1
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Coast Guard Role in UFO's

I took a few days off the head out and get more time on the boat (yeah I know weather is crap). Yesterday the news had an article on some containers that fell off a barge and how the Coast Guard escorted the vessel in, blah blah...

Today as I headed south there was a Ch 16/22a notice to watch out for the containers. During the day the updated the locations.

So the $1M question is, if they know where they are- why not sink them? Between the Coasties partoling for drug runners, the numerous practice sorties out of Tampa and Jax, you figure someone could sink them..

Am I missing something? Am I being too logical?

Would love to hear the logical reason why not. I know it is not the sequester as MacDill was running serious flight operations over the weekend when I was over there.

Thanks
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Old 06-03-2013, 16:41   #2
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Well not all containers are sinkable. Everything you can imagine (and lots you can't imagine) moves in these containers. So it might be a container full of PFDs (or tennis balls or foam mattresses or ????) which isn't going to sink no matter how many holes you put in it.
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Old 06-03-2013, 17:05   #3
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

During my time at sea, we 'misplaced' the odd container over the side in heavy weather. Given the cost of a 20/40' container, I always wondered why a satellite tracking device was not installed as standard equipment to aid in recovery or destruction. Small expense, really.
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Old 07-03-2013, 06:41   #4
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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So it might be a container full of PFDs (or tennis balls or foam mattresses...
Or maybe even something toxic and/or explosive. No, the Coast Guard definitely does not want to just start shooting random holes in floating containers in the hopes of sinking them.

On the other hand, if they are floating, I would think it might be prudent to tow them someplace where they will not be a hazard to navigation.

Of course, if they DO contain something toxic and/or explosive then where do you tow them to?

It is a problem.
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Old 07-03-2013, 07:10   #5
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Two friends of ours have hit UFO's, presumably containers. One boat, Midnight Son, lost her rudder in the Gulf and had to struggle 200 miles back to shore under jury rig to save the boat. The other, Bagherra, took it on the prow in the Med. Fortunately, they had injected high density foam into the prow below the chain locker that limited the flooding until they made it to a haul out facility. On our last trip between Tampa and Key West we saw a large something awash in the sea that I suspect was a container but I can't swear to that. I do think containers are more of a problem than one might suspect and will increasingly be so as the damned things don't just go away. It would seem to me that unless they are lost well off shore, e.g. 100+ miles, a shipper's insurance should cover recovery operations as a matter of course, particularly if the CG knows where they are, No? One of the reasons we carry a raft is specifically because of the possibility and consequences of banging into one of the darn things.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:35   #6
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

I believe another problem is that these objects are reported to the Coast Guard by other ships, rather than the Coast Guard finding them, and even when a Coast Guard vessel goes out looking for them, they would probably have a hard time finding them.

I flew some missions with the Coast Guard air crews in the Bahamas, and one thing I learned was how hard it is to spot something in the ocean, even when you have an approximate position.

At night, without a light or strobe afixed to you or an object, forget it.
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Old 07-03-2013, 08:47   #7
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

It is not in the Coast Guards mission to sink containers. It is the responsibility of the Army Corp's of Engineers to remove hazards to navigation from navigable waters.
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Old 07-03-2013, 09:59   #8
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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It is not in the Coast Guards mission to sink containers. It is the responsibility of the Army Corp's of Engineers to remove hazards to navigation from navigable waters.
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Old 07-03-2013, 10:34   #9
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

That is the ACOE's dredge ship Essayons.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:33   #10
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Unless the rules have changed since 1985, the ship owners are under no obligation to deliver your container. So they don't bother to pick them up, even if they could. Don't ever recall seeing a case where the ship owners have been liable for retrieval.
Not talking about environmental incidents.
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:44   #11
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

just report the containers as full of rum etc. ......................... problem solved as they will be taken care of
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:57   #12
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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Unless the rules have changed since 1985, the ship owners are under no obligation to deliver your container. So they don't bother to pick them up, even if they could. Don't ever recall seeing a case where the ship owners have been liable for retrieval.
Not talking about environmental incidents.
I import and export containers all the time and nothing has changed. The ship owners are liable for nothing. You want coverage you have to buy cargo insurance. Otherwise, if the container is lost you are SOL. Hell of a system.
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Old 07-03-2013, 13:22   #13
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Snore, have you ever seen pictures after a flood? Even un-obvious things like major appliances and old TV consoles floats. Sneakers? Float. Bags of snack foods? Float.

Sink a container? Maybe, if you machine gunned it to puncture everything inside and there were no sneakers or rubber ducks.

Chris, if you could get the trackers down to a buck apiece it would still cost a million dollars to get started on the containers. Versus the small percent they lose, which are cheaper to insure and let go. Since the trackers will cost over $100 each plus ongoing maintenance and subscription fees? Good luck with the finances, the engineering is no problem once you get your costs in line.

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" The ship owners are liable for nothing. You want coverage you have to buy cargo insurance. Otherwise, if the container is lost you are SOL. Hell of a system."
That's just called shipping "FOB Origin". Someone has to pay for everything. If the shipper takes responsibility for damage and loss in transit, they have to charge everyone a bit more. This way, only the folks who want insurance buy insurance. Folks want to self-insure? They can, and often do, because it is cheaper than patronizing an insurance company.
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Old 07-03-2013, 15:42   #14
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Kind of ironic then those folks telling other boat owners they should pay for insurance for their sailboats when couple thousand pound floating containers are just waiting to gouge a hole in your Princess,eh?!?

Someone with a barge crane outfit would fetch them if they were close enough to shore for resale. But it's unknown what's inside any of them without the bill of lading/shipping invoice in hand.
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Old 07-03-2013, 15:48   #15
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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I import and export containers all the time and nothing has changed. The ship owners are liable for nothing. You want coverage you have to buy cargo insurance. Otherwise, if the container is lost you are SOL. Hell of a system.
I learned this the hard way, when in 1985/86 the Nedlloyd Bermuda took 365 tons of my steel bldg to the bottom off the continental shelf. Unfortunely, took Capt and Crew as well.
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