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Old 07-03-2013, 15:53   #16
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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Originally Posted by Clamdigger View Post
couple thousand pound floating containers are just waiting to gouge a hole in your Princess,eh?!?
Couple thousand? A shipping container with cargo could weigh 50,000 lbs or more. Heavier than most boats. Hit one of those and you will come to a screeching halt.
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Old 07-03-2013, 16:04   #17
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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skip-
" The ship owners are liable for nothing. You want coverage you have to buy cargo insurance. Otherwise, if the container is lost you are SOL. Hell of a system."
That's just called shipping "FOB Origin". Someone has to pay for everything. If the shipper takes responsibility for damage and loss in transit, they have to charge everyone a bit more. This way, only the folks who want insurance buy insurance. Folks want to self-insure? They can, and often do, because it is cheaper than patronizing an insurance company.
Even if I buy delivered to a US port (under CFR or CIF Incoterms) it is the supplier who has to buy the insurance. On the other hand, insurance even for my hazmat cargo isn't outrageously expensive. If I recall it's 0.5% of the declared value or something like that.

However, quite correct. If the ship owners were liable that would just go into the shipping costs. Haven't been in this situation but I would guess that, like any loss if there is clear negligence involved then that party would be liable. Maybe not. Even if that is the case, good luck suing someone with a ship flagged in Panama or Liberia.
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Old 07-03-2013, 17:57   #18
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

I see India has just arrested two shipping executives and charged them with homicide. Maybe things will change in the shipping industry if a few more countries started doing that.

Shipping Executives Arrested in Connection to Six Seafarer Deaths | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News
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Old 08-03-2013, 16:30   #19
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It is not in the Coast Guards mission to sink containers. It is the responsibility of the Army Corp's of Engineers to remove hazards to navigation from navigable waters.

With all respects this logic is classic "Not my Job" cluster-F logic. Last I heard the Coasties still did live fire training. Practice away!

On the other hand if some poor SOB hits one, the USCG will spend hundreds of thousands to rescue. Seems cost efficient to take proactive actions and sink the containers...

If there is a concern about toxic items it would appear that the shipper has bills of laden for what SHOULD be in the containers.

Today the NTM is that there are 20 containers off of Ft Pierce...
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Old 08-03-2013, 17:29   #20
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Ah, David, I'm no lawyer but as I understand it the term "navigable waters" refers to waters inside the United States and the usual term is "the navigable waters of the United States" meaning anything you can reach FROM the seas by boat. Lakes, rivers, even bays and harbors, but not the open seas themselves.

If you knew what each fifty caliber machine gun bullet cost, you'd know why the USCG has no interest in shooting containers full of holes. (The 30's are too small.)
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Old 08-03-2013, 17:57   #21
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Is it possible some containers end up overboard on purpose...kinda like the old saying;"they fell off the truck"?!
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Old 08-03-2013, 18:07   #22
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Usually no one responds to UFO. In a busy channel I have seen refrigerators, stoves...... No one seems to respond to clean it up its just a hazard that people who put up with chat on 16 know about. One more reason to use dsc or Chanel 9 for buddies friends and chit chat calls.
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Old 08-03-2013, 19:08   #23
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

"Is it possible some containers end up overboard on purpose"
Not in US waters they don't. Falling off the truck is Teamster business, and unless you're in the union, you'd better not touch that cube. <G>
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Old 08-03-2013, 21:29   #24
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Some friends of mine found a container on the bottom in about fifty feet of water off Miami. It was full of wine. Unfortunately salt water had penetrated the bottles.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:36   #25
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
With all respects this logic is classic "Not my Job" cluster-F logic. Last I heard the Coasties still did live fire training. Practice away!

On the other hand if some poor SOB hits one, the USCG will spend hundreds of thousands to rescue. Seems cost efficient to take proactive actions and sink the containers...

If there is a concern about toxic items it would appear that the shipper has bills of laden for what SHOULD be in the containers.

Today the NTM is that there are 20 containers off of Ft Pierce...
Hell, if I saw one floating offshore, and had a gun on my boat that I thought would put holes in one I found, I would shoot it myself.

I've never seen a floating one, but I passed directly over a sunken one in about 14 or 15 feet of water once. It showed up clearly on my fishfinder.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:28   #26
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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Hell, if I saw one floating offshore, and had a gun on my boat that I thought would put holes in one I found, I would shoot it myself.

I've never seen a floating one, but I passed directly over a sunken one in about 14 or 15 feet of water once. It showed up clearly on my fishfinder.
If you had any idea of some of the things that are shipped in these containers you might think twice about shooting one.

I would highly recommend anyone that wants to give this a try to stand off a good distance and make sure the container is downwind from you. Some of the chemicals shipped in these containers give off toxic or corrosive fumes. Some react violently with water. Some will just plain blow up.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:36   #27
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

Shooting at ocean containers is really stupid, in addition to what skipmac just said, much of what is shipped inside of containers has positive buoyancy.

They are also not completely air tight, so putting bullet holes in them is not going to do anything except to make you look like a redneck shooting at watermelons.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:28   #28
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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If you had any idea of some of the things that are shipped in these containers you might think twice about shooting one.

I would highly recommend anyone that wants to give this a try to stand off a good distance and make sure the container is downwind from you. Some of the chemicals shipped in these containers give off toxic or corrosive fumes. Some react violently with water. Some will just plain blow up.
No, I know what's in them. I've worked a lot of ports. Not too mention, a container almost completely submerged in pretty much a natural shape charge.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:44   #29
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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They are also not completely air tight, so putting bullet holes in them is not going to do anything
Yes, that too. Nothing but steel doors on the back, no gaskets or seals so they will pretty much fill with water within a few hours at most when they fall off the ship.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:47   #30
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Re: Coast Guard Role in UFO's

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Shooting at ocean containers is really stupid, in addition to what skipmac just said, much of what is shipped inside of containers has positive buoyancy.

They are also not completely air tight, so putting bullet holes in them is not going to do anything except to make you look like a redneck shooting at watermelons.
I like shooting at watermelons.

But, I think you're right that any container still floating a day or two after it goes in the water is being bouyed by its' contents, not held air.

At night in the gulf, I do sail pretty slow, figuring that if I do hit one, it's better to be making two or three knots instead of six or seven.
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