Coast Guard procedures

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by DotDun

So the question is, how does having this discussion in this venue affect any change to the protested actions?

How many that are here complaining are actually conveying their thoughts to those that are able to make changes?

Yeah, I get upset when people complain about elected officials only to find out those complaining didn't even vote!

How does any political action, or indeed ANY action, begin? With discussion. And the last time I checked, this was a discussion forum. I agree, words have to translate into action. But actions begin with words.

But yes, anyone who doesn’t vote abdicates their right to complain. It’s shocking to look at the voter turnout here in Canada and especially the USA.

U.S. trails most developed countries in voter turnout | Pew Research Center

[a64pilot]

14murs14 when did you retire?
I ask as I think to some extent the mission of the USCG has changed.
I don’t like “Homeland Security” and don’t think the USCG should be in it. I think that is when their mission changed.

PS, it’s never the servicemen and women, they rarely have any decision to make. It’s the Civilian leadership, who most often has no idea that makes the decisions, it’s always been that way.
If you left it up to the soldiers, there would be no wars.

I have never been boarded, but one night it was pretty clear they were going to, and the weather and sea state was bad. We were conversing on the radio and when asked my last port ,I didn’t say Key West. I made sure I said Boca Chica. I think that is the only reason they didn’t try to board me that night.
But I was concerned, I was going to object cause I didn’t want one of those kids in the water or getting hurt.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

How does any political action, or indeed ANY action, begin? With discussion. And the last time I checked, this was a discussion forum. I agree, words have to translate into action. But actions begin with words.



But yes, anyone who doesn’t vote abdicates their right to complain. It’s shocking to look at the voter turnout here in Canada and especially the USA.



U.S. trails most developed countries in voter turnout | Pew Research Center

Apathy is the death of democracy. Those that complain and do nothing, deserve whatever happens to them! IMO, of course.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

14murs14 when did you retire?
I ask as I think to some extent the mission is the USCG has changed.
I don’t like “Homeland Security” and don’t think the USCG should be in it. I think that is when their mission changed.

PS, it’s never the servicemen and women, they rarely have any decision to make. It’s the Civilian leadership, who most often has no idea that makes the decisions, it’s always been that way.
If you left it up to the soldiers, there would be no wars.

I have never been boarded, but one night it was pretty clear they were going to, and the weather and sea state was bad. We were conversing on the radio and when asked my last port ,I didn’t say Key West. I made sure I said Boca Chica. I think that is the only reason they didn’t try to board me that night.
But I was concerned, I was going to object cause I didn’t want one of those kids in the water or getting hurt.

I’ve not personally seen any behavioral change in USCG boarding private sailboats in the last 15 years, but I’m not out there everyday.

I’ve been boarded by USCG, CBP, and National Park Service. All happened In benign weather conditions. All were very professional. Other than a black boot mark or two, no damage. A close friend, whom I believe, told me he once told USCG via radio it was not safe to board and they can follow him to safe harbor. It took 40 minutes to get to protected water, they followed him, boarded, found nothing, thanked him and left.

My point is that you shouldn’t fear telling them it’s not safe to board, you are the captain of your vessel, it’s your duty to make that call. Obviously they can override your decision if they see it differently than you, but I’m betting that for safety checks only, they will respect a captains decision 99+% of the time.

[hellosailor]

48-
You may not make friends, but I definitely recall reading some federal code that says if the captain of a documented vessel cannot stop for a boarding, either because of safety, conditions, or simply "We need to make the last bridge opening of the day"...you can refuse the request, cite your reason, and ask them to conduct the boarding at the next safe opportunity. (Typically, your destination or other next safe spot.)
Of course if you've got a problem with unsafe conditions, that unfortunately means you've got to deal with a gung-ho to being with, and they're the ones who are likely to get all upset and tear the boat apart when they finally DO come on board.

One year I was on a "welcome boat" outside the harbor for Fleet Week, and a USCG boat wanted to come alongside to transfer a VIP. Our captain politely informed the Coastie that his owner had just paid six figures for a yard overhaul that spring, and that if the paint got scratched, he should be very much aware there was going to be a bill for another paint job, not just a touch up.
Diplomacy.
The transfer was made with a RIB. Everyone was happy.

[mcerdos]

Originally Posted by Tetepare

I have no use for USCG on Lake Ontario. Looks like Lake Erie USCG is no better.





Remember one thing when it comes to government personnel: you file a complaint, you get put on "the list". Prepare for boardings, inspections, and drive bys. If the damage isn't worth the hassle, don't mention it.



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Seriously! And, I am guessing you think there are aliens in Roswell.

[a64pilot]

You may be able to state safety as a reason to politely denying a boarding. Assuming of course such conditions exist. I’d at least want to go on record if you will that I protested it due to safety considerations if they existed.
I know for a fact you can deny the FAA from a “ramp check” cause I have done it, told them I was late for a meeting and couldn’t stay. Inspector was looking real hard at something to “red tag”my aircraft for too, cause if he could, then I wasn’t going anywhere, but nothing stood out I guess.

[14murs14]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

14murs14 when did you retire?
I ask as I think to some extent the mission of the USCG has changed.
I don’t like “Homeland Security” and don’t think the USCG should be in it. I think that is when their mission changed.

PS, it’s never the servicemen and women, they rarely have any decision to make. It’s the Civilian leadership, who most often has no idea that makes the decisions, it’s always been that way.
If you left it up to the soldiers, there would be no wars.

I have never been boarded, but one night it was pretty clear they were going to, and the weather and sea state was bad. We were conversing on the radio and when asked my last port ,I didn’t say Key West. I made sure I said Boca Chica. I think that is the only reason they didn’t try to board me that night.
But I was concerned, I was going to object cause I didn’t want one of those kids in the water or getting hurt.

Retired just over a year ago. I largely agree with the homeland security piece, hated it since day one. Seems pretty pointless to spend huge amounts of money and training time becoming the 6th best navy in the world when we already have the first. I'm no fan of safety boardings either, or migrant interdiction, or marijuana interdiction; I'd have done nothing but SAR if I could have and luckily as a helo pilot that is mostly what I did. But you put on the uniform you do the mission you're told to do.

I would note that the boarding program has been around for decades and isn't considered a homeland security mission nor am I aware that it is significantly plussed up now vs 20 years ago. Boat and air crews assign time by mission at the end of every sortie, and time doing boarding generally goes toward one of the boater safety codes, not the homeland security code, which is a statutorily different mission (The CG has 11 different statutory missions, can be a challenge sometimes keeping them sorted). What probably is plussed up is the number of forums like this where stories heard from a friend of a friend can take on mythical proportions, so it may seem like they're more common.

[a64pilot]

I don’t think many actual Cruisers have any issue at all with the USCG.
For me it’s all the others that are prevalent all over the place now.
I was stopped and questioned five miles off the coast of Stuart Fl by the local Sheriff, after he finally came to believe that I wasn’t headed for the islands, I asked why was it I was stopped by the Sheriffs Dept, sort of but not openly questioning his authority to do so.
His answer was they work closely with Homeland Security.
Of course, I had to ask him the same as I ask all the local cops and CBP etc that stop me, why don’t you have AIS? Most don’t even know what it is.

[Bill Seal]

Chick out this jackbooted dickhead DI and that will explain what's gone wrong. Back when I went through USCG boot (cripes! 60 years ago) it was all about learning and seamanship and not blind obediance USMC style'

[hellosailor]

"why don’t you have AIS?"
No really, that's like asking why the Army wears camo battle gear, or why police use unmarked cars, isn't it?
If I'm bringing in ten tons of coke, and my AIS receiver says "SHERIFF"....do you think that can possibly be a problem for the Sheriff?

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"why don’t you have AIS?"
No really, that's like asking why the Army wears camo battle gear, or why police use unmarked cars, isn't it?
If I'm bringing in ten tons of coke, and my AIS receiver says "SHERIFF"....do you think that can possibly be a problem for the Sheriff?

I believe he meant an AIS receiver....

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by DotDun

I believe he meant an AIS receiver....

I did mean receiver, cause that answers seemingly most of their questions, like where did you come from, what is your registration number etc.
Also there are apps like Marine traffic where you can more often than not see a vessels entire track if they are Coastal, which if used would seem to eliminate most of the stops. Plus I’d bet most drug runners don’t have their AIS on continuously.
With a very minor expenditure for technology, it would seem that their job could be easily enhanced, as it is it seems they just wander about with nothing to do. Local LEO’s not USCG.
I have only once been stopped to see safety gear and that was in the dinghy, and that wasn’t even a stop, FWC pulled close and he pointed at his preserver, I held our up, and off he went.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Bill Seal

Chick out this jackbooted dickhead DI and that will explain what's gone wrong. Back when I went through USCG boot (cripes! 60 years ago) it was all about learning and seamanship and not blind obediance USMC style'

I was surprised to find out that the highest drop out rate for any boot camp was the USCG.
Lowest? Believe it or not it’s the USMC.

[Jason Flare]

I have lost some respect for the US Coast Guard.

Mrs. Flare and I were about 10nm downwind of this rescue. We heard all sides of the radio transmissions.

The S/V Entitled was the first on scene of 3 men in a life raft. Soon after S/V Evergreen was on scene. Here’s the report from the CG:

Coast Guard rescues 3 after fishing vessel sinks off Myrtle Beach | Coast Guard News

Just found this story online. No mention of Evergreen. (Entitled is a 52 ft. IP). The story was published 2 days ago.

Man recounts efforts to rescue sunken fishing boat crew. | Myrtle Beach Sun News

Only saw a few problems with the article. The CG helicopter was 9 minutes away not 9 miles. Entitled was asked not to take the survivors onboard due to the help arriving and the medical issue of one man in the life raft.

There was communication with the Maersk Weymouth whose Bridge Officer denied having hit anyone. The Captain was called to the bridge and the Maersk Weymouth was ordered to return to the scene which it did.

Entitled and M. Weymouth were told to remain on scene after the helo departed. Entitled informed the CG that he was singlehanding to Beaufort and wanted to get underway. The helo informed Entitled that he could continue to Beaufort. Maersk was told it could continue to Norfolk.

There were two flares fired. We looked back and saw both just on the horizon.

If we were the closest boat we would have turned and beat our way back. It would have taken 3 or 4 hours in my estimation.

Why I lost some respect:

Why no mention in the CG release that non CG mariners responded?

BTW in Beaufort We looked out to see Evergreen anchored next to us. I told them the news stories at the time made no mention of Entitled or Evergreen.