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Old 23-07-2013, 17:47   #46
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Originally Posted by Sea Frog View Post
Well, it is possible as well that the whole story about fake mayday was invented by CG to justify. But if it was not and indeed the guy is guilty, it will be no problem proving that. There should be a recording of all transmissions, and having this recorded, it will be easy to prove thet it was the guy's voice (if it was him). Anyway, we will probably have more news and info about this soon
You can't possibly be serious.
You really think that the US Coast Guard would just single out some poor innocent bystander and do that?
That is just so Kafkaesque.
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Old 23-07-2013, 17:57   #47
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

Roverhi has a good point: if this suspect is a Kiwi (travelling on an Irish passport) [possible, Kiwi's can have dual citizenship], he is still unlikely to sound like an American when he speaks. His speech patterns will be more distinctive than, say, a Californian's.

FWIW.

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Old 23-07-2013, 18:22   #48
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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[possible, Kiwi's can have dual citizenship],
Yeah, they can.

Likely the USCG were aware of the fake call from the area but didn't know the exact boat - so checking into this boat for a fake call was the reason for the approach to him and desire to board (the fact it was also the reason to approach others being lost in subsequent events).......of course I am guessing .
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Old 23-07-2013, 18:41   #49
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Short of that, they can, as the lawyers say, pound dirt.
If you feel so inclined, please challenge this and report back, we're very interested to see if you can "fix it".

Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 1 | Sailfeed

The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:

Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.
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Old 23-07-2013, 19:15   #50
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
If you feel so inclined, please challenge this and report back, we're very interested to see if you can "fix it".

Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 1 | Sailfeed

The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:

Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.
Absolutely...despite all the other claims of what and where their boarding authority comes from...

BUT...because of the court system in the USA....MOST of the time for other than a routine SAFETY CHECK which IS NOT a SEARCH...the USCG will request a warrant so Slick Willy the lawyer won't get it tossed in court.

If the USCG goes aboard a fishing vessel to legally inspect the catch (no warrant required), the boarding officers can't start going through drawers, cabinets, etc....however, if they find something like a small amount of drugs in plain view, they will call for and probably get a search warrant to "search" further...whatever the warrant approves.

The USCG is proud to be trusted with such broad LE authority and works very hard to hold that public trust despite what some knuckleheads may think.
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Old 23-07-2013, 20:07   #51
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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from latitude38:
According to several Bay Area news sources, Coast Guard personnel were on a routine patrol off Sausalito Sunday afternoon when a distress call led them to the moored 45-ft sailboat Fortune, crewed by John McCormick, which has been moored off the Sausalito YC for several days. CG spokesman Mark Leahey explained that the guardsmen recognized McCormick's voice, as he had made false maydays previously, including at least one earlier in the day.
To me this does not seem plausible. If they were investigating a crime, they would try to catch him in the act with proof and evidence to convict, and then arrest him with a warrant, and I think the police not CG. CG boarding would prove what? That he has an irish accent and the VHF came from the general area? This makes me think even more that someone else knowing he has a thick accent is copying his accent in the fake mayday calls. now THAT would be funny huh? hahahaha, they think its that irish dude, what fun this is.
Makes more sense to me than someone with a thick irish accent coming to the usa to buy a boat and then making fake maydays.

Then again, he is probably a severe alcoholic bastard like all irish are, and was completely drunk and calling mayday's was his way of getting attention, since he beat his wife back home and she isn't here, so what evil can he do now?

Or maybe this, he flies out here, bought this boat, found out it was a total wreck and can't be sailed back home, and he is broke, so now all he needs to do is some stupid **** so he can get deported back to NZ on a free plane ride provided by the US government, and they have to get rid of the junk boat too. Nicely done Mr. McCormick, nicely done, using the police state to your advantage.
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Old 23-07-2013, 20:39   #52
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

ok, had to do some more research...
After fake SOS call, officer hit during arrest - SFGate

This link says it is from court records, the other reports found are all over the place with different claims. From this report, there was ONE mayday call that 'spot' went overboard, and then another that spot was ok. Spot sounds like his dog, and he sounds like he was drinking..
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Old 23-07-2013, 20:58   #53
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
If you feel so inclined, please challenge this and report back, we're very interested to see if you can "fix it".

Coast Guard Boardings and Your Fourth Amendment Rights, Part 1 | Sailfeed

The U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy:

Title 14 section 89 of the United States Code authorizes the U.S. Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, anytime, any place upon the high seas and upon any waterway over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquires, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests. The U.S. Coast Guard does not require a warrant to conduct search, seizures, arrests over any United States Waterway or high seas. The U.S. Coast Guard also have full legal law enforcement power on any land under the control of the United States, as needed to complete any mission.
Fix it?

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(a) The Coast Guard may make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures, and arrests upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, for the prevention, detection, and suppression of violations of laws of the United States. For such purposes, commissioned, warrant, and petty officers may at any time go on board of any vessel subject to the jurisdiction, or to the operation of any law, of the United States, address inquiries to those on board, examine the ship’s documents and papers, and examine, inspect, and search the vessel and use all necessary force to compel compliance. When from such inquiries, examination, inspection, or search it appears that a breach of the laws of the United States rendering a person liable to arrest is being, or has been committed, by any person, such person shall be arrested or, if escaping to shore, shall be immediately pursued and arrested on shore, or other lawful and appropriate action shall be taken; or, if it shall appear that a breach of the laws of the United States has been committed so as to render such vessel, or the merchandise, or any part thereof, on board of, or brought into the United States by, such vessel, liable to forfeiture, or so as to render such vessel liable to a fine or penalty and if necessary to secure such fine or penalty, such vessel or such merchandise, or both, shall be seized.
Any agent or agency that believes that the terms and phrases "upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction,..", "laws of the United States", "any vessel subject to the jurisdiction", "person liable to arrest", and "lawful and appropriate action" can be construed to mean anything contra to the contract that legitimizes the federal government in the first place would be openly at war with the states and the People of this country. I don't believe that this is Coast Guard policy.

A cruisers forum isn't a very good place to discuss heavy, divisive political subjects like this -- until it is. I quoted the law and the standards that all government entities must observe, the Coast Guard included. San Francisco Bay is in state waters. There are overlapping jurisdictions to be sure, and the government of California has given this military arm of the federal government some local police duties that ordinarily would be prohibited due to posse comitatus. But while in California the Coast Guard does not have that same unlimited authority it would have in international waters.

And it certainly is not imune to the prohibitions of the Fourth Amendment, the legal interpretations of which are observed by all governmental agencies as referenced above.
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Old 23-07-2013, 21:18   #54
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

There are very clearly people who are anti-authority on this thread, regardless of whether said authorities are acting not only legally, but what would broadly be called ethically.

There are plenty of excesses of power out there. I think those should be challenged.

However, it diminishes the credibility of those who speak out against power when some subset of people just have broad, ill-defined and badly researched antipathy towards any governmental actions.

Crank mayday calls are truly despicable. Not only does it waste money, it creates a mindset among rescuers "oh, no, probably another fake call". People do not give 100% when they have an idea that all their effort will be for naught, and I don't want to be in distress with rescuers who don't 100% believe it is a real distress.
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Old 23-07-2013, 22:31   #55
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They have him for assaulting CG personnel, probably a federal offense. They likely won't even pursue the false mayday call due to evidentiary problems.
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Old 24-07-2013, 00:44   #56
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

How dare a reporter call it an Australian accent??? I'm deeply offended, Kiwis are much more civilised.
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Old 24-07-2013, 01:36   #57
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

Perhaps "Spot" could have been some sort of pet animal other than a dog, which meant the boat owner would have had a greater concern about its safety. How well do 'roos or sheep swim?
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Old 24-07-2013, 04:24   #58
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

So, this story is yet another reason not to drink on board
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Old 24-07-2013, 05:01   #59
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Originally Posted by ryon View Post
Fix it?



Any agent or agency that believes that the terms and phrases "upon the high seas and waters over which the United States has jurisdiction,..", "laws of the United States", "any vessel subject to the jurisdiction", "person liable to arrest", and "lawful and appropriate action" can be construed to mean anything contra to the contract that legitimizes the federal government in the first place would be openly at war with the states and the People of this country. I don't believe that this is Coast Guard policy.

A cruisers forum isn't a very good place to discuss heavy, divisive political subjects like this -- until it is. I quoted the law and the standards that all government entities must observe, the Coast Guard included. San Francisco Bay is in state waters. There are overlapping jurisdictions to be sure, and the government of California has given this military arm of the federal government some local police duties that ordinarily would be prohibited due to posse comitatus. But while in California the Coast Guard does not have that same unlimited authority it would have in international waters.

And it certainly is not imune to the prohibitions of the Fourth Amendment, the legal interpretations of which are observed by all governmental agencies as referenced above.

First off...no one is discussing a "heavy, devisive poltical" subject.

Most here are just pointing out the USCG used it's authority to possibly get a menace off the water...but with the lack of trust and reliability in the media...it's all supposition anyhow.

Secondly... The USCG has the same authority on federal navigable waters no matter where...or the fact that it's also "state water. The USCG does NOT have authority in state waters that are wholly confined within that state and there is no interstate commerce in or out of them unless specifically directed.

US Code (law) preempts state law. So title 14 applies in all states.

Why Does Federal Law Supersede State Law? | eHow
Preemption
  • The legal doctrine of federal laws superseding state laws is called preemption. When a law passed by Congress plainly states that it is intended to preempt state laws, courts have little difficulty applying this express preemption. Somewhat more challenging, though still considered express preemption, is when a federal law does not state an intent to preempt state laws but is such that preemptive intent is implicit. Even when preemption is express, courts must still identify the scope and substance of federal preemption and preserve state laws to the extent possible.

All seems pretty simple to me...same stuff I learned in 7th grade about the USA Government.
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Old 24-07-2013, 08:14   #60
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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First off...no one is discussing a "heavy, devisive poltical" subject.

Most here are just pointing out the USCG used it's authority to possibly get a menace off the water...but with the lack of trust and reliability in the media...it's all supposition anyhow.

Secondly... The USCG has the same authority on federal navigable waters no matter where...or the fact that it's also "state water. The USCG does NOT have authority in state waters that are wholly confined within that state and there is no interstate commerce in or out of them unless specifically directed.

US Code (law) preempts state law. So title 14 applies in all states.

Why Does Federal Law Supersede State Law? | eHow
Preemption
  • The legal doctrine of federal laws superseding state laws is called preemption. When a law passed by Congress plainly states that it is intended to preempt state laws, courts have little difficulty applying this express preemption. Somewhat more challenging, though still considered express preemption, is when a federal law does not state an intent to preempt state laws but is such that preemptive intent is implicit. Even when preemption is express, courts must still identify the scope and substance of federal preemption and preserve state laws to the extent possible.
All seems pretty simple to me...same stuff I learned in 7th grade about the USA Government.
I have a problem with a lot of what has been "taught" in public school. What you describe is a universal authority to make and execute "law". How convieeeenient for getting things done!

Now, if we can get the media to help us along with our plan...
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