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Old 23-07-2013, 13:10   #31
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

But have the Americans fixed his boat for free?
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Old 23-07-2013, 13:38   #32
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

You can thank the blockade/rum runners for the power the USCG now holds. And their authority does not end at the US waters. I have seen them board vessels right out of the Panama canal. After we gave it back. They also hang out around Honduras.
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Old 23-07-2013, 13:40   #33
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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I gather you haven't read much about the recent Zimmerman trial in Florida.
Nobody could prove which of only two people was on a voice recording.
Federal versus state. Completely different resource base.
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Old 23-07-2013, 13:41   #34
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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The USCG does not need probably cause to board any vessel. They can board anyone, anywhere. Possible exception of U.S. Naval vessels.
Well kind of. They can board any US flagged vessel anywhere except in the territorial waters of another country where they would have to have the permission of that country to do so.

I believe they can only board foreign flagged vessels without permission within the territorial waters of the US. In international waters or the waters of another country they will need the permission of the country where the vessel is registered and the permission of the country where the vessel is sailing if in their territory.
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Old 23-07-2013, 13:41   #35
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

I do miss the good old days of people being put in stocks and flogged in the town square for real or perceived misdeeds. Let's not forget the crowd favorite of witch burning.
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Old 23-07-2013, 13:44   #36
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Let's not forget the crowd favorite of witch burning.
But to be fair, it clearly worked .
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Old 23-07-2013, 13:46   #37
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

You're right, I haven't seen a flying broom in ages.
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Old 23-07-2013, 14:08   #38
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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I do miss the good old days of people being put in stocks and flogged in the town square for real or perceived misdeeds. Let's not forget the crowd favorite of witch burning.
You're givin' away your age
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Old 23-07-2013, 14:10   #39
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Too bad he didn't try to pull it off in Mexico.
You mean 'pulling off' minding his own business sitting in his boat without having a national flag up? He had no guns, he had 'weapons'.
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Old 23-07-2013, 14:17   #40
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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But have the Americans fixed his boat for free?

we would only do that if the guy declared war on us

but first we would have sent a cruise missile up his exhaust pipe or sent a drone to rain down on him, so there wouldn't have been much to fix
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Old 23-07-2013, 14:32   #41
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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You mean 'pulling off' minding his own business sitting in his boat without having a national flag up? He had no guns, he had 'weapons'.
If one believes the article in Lat38 is correct, the mayday call "lead" them to Mr. McCormick. The would have had to have spoken to him to determine that he "sounded like" the guy making the mayday call.

He was ordered to standby for boarding and refused to do so, cut his mooring line and tried to leave.

Doesn't sound like he was minding his own business, it sounds like the Coast Guard was tracking his mayday call down and was acting like any law enforcement officer on patrol would act during an investigation.

Since the Coast Guard has the right to board any vessel in U.S. waters, they were within their right to do so. By trying to leave, Mr. McCormick made them wonder why and they began to chase him. He is VERY lucky they didn't fire upon him. In any case, I doubt many people tell the customs officers in any country, they don't have the right to search their luggage.

He is going to be very lucky if he isn't put on the first plane back to NZ sans 45ft boat. @DOJ, perhaps they'll tidy up his vessel a bit before letting him leave.
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Old 23-07-2013, 15:12   #42
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

Hhhmmmm, NZ and Irish Passport. Strange that the CG would easily connect his voice with the voice that was making the false Maydays. This guy is really really really STUPID if he is making false Mayday calls with an identifiable accent.
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Old 23-07-2013, 15:49   #43
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

If the Coast Guard has a problem with an uncooperative citizen, they can get a warrant, just like any other public agency (see U.S. Constitution, Article 4, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure). If they observe a crime being committed, they may make a detention (arrest), and investigate (see The Fourth Amendment "Reasonableness" Requirement - FindLaw). Or they can have a "conversation" with him and be "invited aboard".

Short of that, they can, as the lawyers say, pound dirt.

I hope we discount the "everybody knows" legal expertise offered here, just as we have to discount a lot of the sailing "knowledge" we find.

The Coast Guard is Homeland Security. Want to see how to deal with Homeland Security?



The harbor patrol is state and county. Want to see how to deal with state and county?



It's refreshing that many of us here are taking the effort to question authority. It's the only way we're going to keep our sport, and our society reasonably free.
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Old 23-07-2013, 15:59   #44
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Originally Posted by Mimsy View Post
...It would not matter in this case in the least, since foreign nationals are not covered by the Constitution. ....
Begging to differ....

The US Supreme Court has ruled on that issue. Within the US (and to a certain extent in US Territories) everyone is covered with two notable exceptions: voting and running for federal office. (See excerpt below.)

Extraterritoriality is another beast. Guantanamo comes to mind.

(Two links provided below for your reading pleasure....)


THOMAS JEFFERSON LAW REVIEW
1. ALIENS, CITIZENS, AND
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS
[Vol. 25:367

The Constitution does distinguish in some respects between the rights of citizens and noncitizens: the right not to be discriminatorily denied the vote and the right to run for federal elective office are expressly restricted to citizens.12 All other rights, however, are written without such a limitation.

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendment due process and equal protection guarantees extend to all "persons." The rights attaching to criminal trials,
including the right to a public trial, a trial by jury, the assistance of a lawyer, and the right to confront adverse witnesses, all apply to "the accused." And both the First Amendment's protections of political and religious freedoms and the Fourth Amendment's protection of privacy and liberty apply to "the people."

The fact that the Framers chose to limit to citizens only the
rights to vote and to run for federal office is one indication that
they did not intend other constitutional rights to be so limited.


Accordingly, the Supreme Court has squarely stated that neither the First Amendment nor the Fifth Amendment "acknowledges any distinction between citizens and resident aliens."13 For more than a century, the Court has recognized that the Equal Protection Clause is "universal in [its] application, to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction, without regard to differences of ... nationality."14 The Court has repeatedly stated that "the Due Process Clause applies to all 'persons' within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful, unlawful, temporary, or permanent."15 When noncitizens, no matter what their status, are tried for crimes, they are entitled to all of the rights that attach to the criminal process, without any distinction based on their nationality.16


For further reading, the entire concept on US Constitutional Rights for foreigners inside the USA is presented and argued here: http://scholarship.law.georgetown.ed...context=facpub

For further reading on US Constitution Extraterritoriality - ie Guantanamo - see: http://clhc.usc.edu/why/students/org...erald_82_2.pdf

James
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Old 23-07-2013, 17:36   #45
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Re: Coast Guard Detains Uncooperative Boater After Chase On SF Bay

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Federal versus state. Completely different resource base.

That wasn't a reference about points of law. A big issue in the Zimmerman trial was that although there was a voice in the 911 tape, the voice could not be identified. Just because a voice is recorded does not automatically mean it can be identified.
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