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Old 08-12-2013, 16:06   #91
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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The budget rules!
The budget for the state of Florida is 70 billion dollars. A better approach is the one being taken now, publicity and local government involvement. Eventually the political noise will reach those that can tone down the "enforcement". It's all politics.
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Old 08-12-2013, 16:21   #92
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Plenty of $200,000 boats on moorings last winter i was there. If that FWC guy rents a trailer for $1,500 a month, you need to consider what his motivations might be.

Maybe it's just the riff raff being hassled. That hasn't been made completely clear.
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Old 08-12-2013, 16:26   #93
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

I did take the liberty of posting the original post on the FWC complaint section. I will be interested to see if I get a response.
I am, and have been a Florida resident since 1957,and a live aboard here for the last 8 years. So what a state agency does, does affect me and interests me!!!
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Old 08-12-2013, 16:27   #94
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Thin Line, - Stay on top!...as this appears to be your behavior. It's honorable to expose deficiencies and problems. If the training program for the FWC in the Marathon area needs feedback, then you are their most important resource. There are people within the FWC that will accept reports of probems. I would hesitate to join those that claim conspiracy, the police state, or "revolt". I have been as much a resident of the Florida Keys since most anyone else since the mid-1950's and there has always been the claim that the "outsiders" are a problem or the real "conchs" are to blame,....... or maybe it's those in the brown shirts or those with the tatoos. 'just about the same as everywhere else on earth! As it turns out most of those in position to solve your problems will respond well to your efforts to be aiding in a solution. Yes, "stay on top" be direct and candid in report while not presenting yourself as a victum or accursor. "
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Old 08-12-2013, 16:31   #95
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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Originally Posted by JusDreaming View Post
I did take the liberty of posting the original post on the FWC complaint section. I will be interested to see if I get a response.
I am, and have been a Florida resident since 1957,and a live aboard here for the last 8 years. So what a state agency does, does affect me and interests me!!!
Oh, oh, we're all on the list now!
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Old 08-12-2013, 17:14   #96
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

You're safe Rick I cut and pasted it Unless those pictures of you on the milk carton surface!!! But we are such subversives we are probably being watched by the Feds.
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Old 08-12-2013, 17:15   #97
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

For those of us that would be cruising through this season could you give a generalization of who the targets are? Moorings? anchorage? Small boats? large boats? Full time residents? Transients? Florida registered? etc.

Last time we were there they kept targeting a steel/aluminum Canadian vessel for an anchor light.

Thanks
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Old 08-12-2013, 17:37   #98
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

I m old enough to remember when the only law that could board a vessel underway or at anchor was the USCG!! Then our Gov decided that all law agencys could do this !! And the crap hit the fan !! Many west coast fishermen were aressted for useing force against officers boarding them with guns! It's way past the time to complane about stuff like this happening !! Yall should have started this 30 + years ago when it first started happening !! Way to late now!! Maybe a new set of laws need to worked on to stop some of this maybe a new fedral law makeing a liveaboard a home, and applying the same principals to them that we have for our shore side homes !! Might be something some smart lawyers, and lobbyists could get started !! Its way beyond my abilty to get done !!
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Old 08-12-2013, 17:59   #99
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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Plenty of $200,000 boats on moorings last winter i was there. If that FWC guy rents a trailer for $1,500 a month, you need to consider what his motivations might be.

Maybe it's just the riff raff being hassled. That hasn't been made completely clear.
Wow, I leave Boot Key for a while to go watch FSU march into the national championship football game and things go crazy.

There should be a clear paper trail identifying the FWC officers who are issuing tickets and I would bet they have to make some type of incident report if they try and board a boat with their justification. There should be some internal memos if these actions are official orders from higher ups.

All this needs to be well documented and organized so it can be presented to the local government and brought to the attention of the Florida State Government. Florida spends big bucks trying to attract tourists and this type of incident is a black eye that can undo that effort.

My advice would be to present all the documentation to the Marathon city officials to request they contact the governors office. It seems like FWC may be working at cross purposes with official state policy.
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Old 08-12-2013, 18:40   #100
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

bobconnie and I are of the same vintage and I'm sure we both remember very clearly that all west coast fisherman were armed back in the day and you really took your life in your hands messin' with us back then. We looked out for each other, no questions asked! We didn't count on law enforcement of any stripe to protect or watch out for us... many of us oldsters are going to die defending our rights and property from government and those who wish to do us harm. It is not the America we grew up in, unfortunately... and the folks who claim to have our best interests in mind are really out to take what few liberties we enjoy away.
Some spots are worse than others but like living aboard, living off the grid works just as well. Cheers, Phil
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Old 08-12-2013, 18:42   #101
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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For those of us that would be cruising through this season could you give a generalization of who the targets are?......................
The primary targets are those that break the law. .....dropping an anchor on a coral reef; motoring at a four foot draft through a bed of "turtle grass" that is four feet deep; anchoring without a proper anchor light; anchoring in a channel; a lack of registration/documentation or safety equipment. I do not have direct evidence, but I suspect that boats which appear as a means of cheap housing rather than active cruising boats are subject to more scrutiny. I've been a part time resident of the Keys since the fifties and cruising/anchoring there since the seventies without ever being questioned or approached by any authority, so I might not have the experience to give good advice, but my lack of experience with law enforcement is a message too!
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Old 08-12-2013, 19:32   #102
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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The primary targets are those that break the law. .....dropping an anchor on a coral reef; motoring at a four foot draft through a bed of "turtle grass" that is four feet deep; anchoring without a proper anchor light; anchoring in a channel; a lack of registration/documentation or safety equipment. I do not have direct evidence, but I suspect that boats which appear as a means of cheap housing rather than active cruising boats are subject to more scrutiny. I've been a part time resident of the Keys since the fifties and cruising/anchoring there since the seventies without ever being questioned or approached by any authority, so I might not have the experience to give good advice, but my lack of experience with law enforcement is a message too!
Oh, so you have actually been at the mooring field in boot key harbor in the last three weeks?
And your argument is specious...it's like saying I don't have cancer so cancer doesnt exist
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Old 08-12-2013, 20:26   #103
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Nobody has been exempt from their targeting.

Anchored, mooring ball, it hasn't mattered, anybody and everybody is being treated like a criminal. They are not targeting derelict boats, nice boats, catamarans, monohulls or anyone in particular, if you've got a boat in Boot Key you're on the list.

The city council meeting on Thursday at 5:30 will have a strong showing from the community. I am honored to be one of the people chosen to speak at the meeting on behalf of our community. To be honest I think getting the mayor involved and the city council might put the squeeze on the entire problem.

To anyone considering coming to Boot Key, don't let this steer you away. This is a wonderful place to visit/live, this is a temporary problem we will solve. I don't want this to cast a shadow on what would otherwise be an almost perfect place and community.
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Old 08-12-2013, 21:38   #104
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Florida state law actually requires probable cause for the FWC to board your boat. The only provision for boarding without your permission is if you refuse to let them inspect a permanently installed head. The issue is that the patriot act allowed local LEOs to be deputized as USCG and Customs and Border Patrol officers who are allowed to board without your permission. Everyone else requires probable cause or a warrant. If a local or state LEO boards your boat without permission, ask him if he is a deputized USCG or Customs and Border Patrol officer. If he says yes, ask him/her for identification, if he says no tell him/her that they are breaking the law by being on your boat without permission, probable cause, or a warrant and they should leave immediately. Of course you should never use violence or threaten violence. In Florida if they have asked you if you have a permanently installed head and you do, they have the right to inspect it. They do not have the right to do anything else. Remember that in the course of their inspection they see evidence of illegal activity they are not required to close their eyes to it. Remember that cops often attempt to use intimidation to get you to allow them to do things that they have absolutely no right to do. They have numerous techniques to do this and they often work. Acting agressively and getting in your personal space is a favorite. When they have weapons on their hips and get two inches off your nose and talk in a loud voice it intimidates most people. It is probably also a good indication that they want you to let them do something they have no right to do. They get you to back down and when you complain they say you gave them permission. If you know your rights and firmly stand your ground they'll eventually have to back off.

If they are deputized USCG or CBP officers they have the right to inspect anything they want to in your boat. If they are using their USCG/CBP powers to pull the kind of stuff reported by the op then tell the local coast guard commander. The Coasties are generally a very professional organization and they typically don't pull this kind of crap and I'm sure the commandant would have something to say about it.

With respect to Florida registration there is no grace period if you do not have the boat registered in some state. The 90 day rule only applies to a boat with a current out of state registration. If it is from a state where registration of documented boats is not done or optional you can be required to purchase a Florida registration the second you cross into Florida waters.

None of this says the the FWC does not have the right to pull you over and inspect your required safety equipment and registration. This may have been the issue regarding dinghy's. In my experience, a lot of dinghy's do not carry the required safety equipment. That may be their experience as well.
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Old 08-12-2013, 21:54   #105
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Quote:
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Florida state law actually requires probable cause for the FWC to board your boat. The only provision for boarding without your permission is if you refuse to let them inspect a permanently installed head. The issue is that the patriot act allowed local LEOs to be deputized as USCG and Customs and Border Patrol officers who are allowed to board without your permission. Everyone else requires probable cause or a warrant. If a local or state LEO boards your boat without permission, ask him if he is a deputized USCG or Customs and Border Patrol officer. If he says yes, ask him/her for identification, if he says no tell him/her that they are breaking the law by being on your boat without permission, probable cause, or a warrant and they should leave immediately. Of course you should never use violence or threaten violence. In Florida if they have asked you if you have a permanently installed head and you do, they have the right to inspect it. They do not have the right to do anything else. Remember that in the course of their inspection they see evidence of illegal activity they are not required to close their eyes to it. Remember that cops often attempt to use intimidation to get you to allow them to do things that they have absolutely no right to do. They have numerous techniques to do this and they often work. Acting agressively and getting in your personal space is a favorite. When they have weapons on their hips and get two inches off your nose and talk in a loud voice it intimidates most people. It is probably also a good indication that they want you to let them do something they have no right to do. They get you to back down and when you complain they say you gave them permission. If you know your rights and firmly stand your ground they'll eventually have to back off. If they are deputized USCG or CBP officers they have the right to inspect anything they want to in your boat. If they are using their USCG/CBP powers to pull the kind of stuff reported by the op then tell the local coast guard commander. The Coasties are generally a very professional organization and they typically don't pull this kind of crap and I'm sure the commandant would have something to say about it. With respect to Florida registration there is no grace period if you do not have the boat registered in some state. The 90 day rule only applies to a boat with a current out of state registration. If it is from a state where registration of documented boats is not done or optional you can be required to purchase a Florida registration the second you cross into Florida waters. None of this says the the FWC does not have the right to pull you over and inspect your required safety equipment and registration. This may have been the issue regarding dinghy's. In my experience, a lot of dinghy's do not carry the required safety equipment. That may be their experience as well.
Can you clarify this last part? You just got done saying the only reason they could board you is if you give them permission, they are inspecting your head, or are deputized by the Uscg. Now you say they can pull you over to inspect safety equipment. Can they board you under that pretenses as well? Please clarify and thanks for the info.
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