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Old 07-12-2013, 11:06   #31
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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Originally Posted by lorenzo b View Post
There are vast areas of the world where cops don't exist, very calm, beautiful, and exiting. You have a boat, use it.
One really has to live outside the USA a few years to appreciate how militarized the culture there has become.
100% Agree.

When I bring this subject up in conversation, people here in the USA look at me like I'm a nut. The loss of liberty and freedom here is appaling to see... more each time we return. Most folks, just go along with the new rules, illegal searches and restrictions hoping to be left alone.

My gutt feeling tells me... the situation probably won't end well.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:18   #32
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Head east over to the Bahamas, great people nice country. Give-up on Florida it's a lost cause of old people in diapers.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:20   #33
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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Originally Posted by lorenzo b View Post
There are vast areas of the world where cops don't exist, very calm, beautiful, and exiting. You have a boat, use it.
One really has to live outside the USA a few years to appreciate how militarized the culture there has become.
Sure, try these locations:

Attack in Venezuela

Violent attack, Cruisers injured, St Vincent & Grenadines, Union Island
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:34   #34
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

we had an experience in the keys where, in the middle of the night, a police boat shone a powerful light on us. we had two powerful lights on board and lit them up too. we kept ours on them until they turned theirs off and left....
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:45   #35
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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what we learned in san diego during our more than decade long war against harrassment is that the govt can do whatever they want to do.
we are in the minority.
what was gorgeous scenery once is now declared ugliness and dereliction,as we allegedly pay no property taxes....the anchorages were closed due to the elevated number of callouts for the police to answer--you can bet someone is calling during night for that express purpose, as i have watched your problems emulate san diegos and washingtons and others.
we learned there is no RIGHT to anchor, that it is a privilege...even in federal waters.
we learned it is a local criminal act to own a boat and have a lower income.
good luck.i hope you guys win.
yes the bunch in sd had lawyers and mouths.
we are outnumbered grossly and there is no fairness factor, nor right to our lifestyle. we have been listed as criminal element in many places.
šjust doin our jobš
You know I feel for both sides in this argument. I too have lived aboard in San Diego and some of the boats in that mooring field are downright derelict and polluting. Which to me is a good reason for local government to step in and try and clean up the harbor. That's an example of government working for the common good. There were also people living on those boats who would regularly come in a steal things off of the marina boat ie my bike.

Then on the flip side of this is the Florida thing where it seems like it is going from general clean up to harassment. Which also isn't cool. But the good news is that we have checks and balances a bit. If you were in a third world country and people were shining lights in your face you would have to go pay off ten people to get it to stop. In America you can talk to news papers, local government, FWC management, local law enforcement and get the thing sorted which is a good thing.

Although I don't agree that we live in a military state I don't argue that we do live in a punitive state and it makes me nauseous. Everyone is a cop, everyone is a lawyer and everyone is a school principal. America as a whole needs to lighten up.
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Old 07-12-2013, 11:50   #36
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Do we know if these were active cruisers in the mooring field or anchorage? Or possibly an effort to get some of the live aboards into compliance with sewage laws? I've anchored in boot key briefly on my way through for 3 years now and my boat isn't the prettiest. It wouldn't take much for some to assume that I was a live aboard and not paying my way. Nothing wrong with live aboards. But if the boat never moves, and you dont see a pump out boat come by you can be assured that polluting is happening. Then there's having to sneak / steal shore access. Sometimes those that insist that they are not part of the problem, are the actual problem. To the FWC I might look suspect, but to any cruiser who takes a look my 5k dinghy and gear, it's clear that I'm active. Stopping somewhere for months or so is legit, but a mastless dirty boat, kayak dinghy, and never moving is kinda a issue.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:06   #37
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

I don't quite understand this. Your saying people are waking up to these police in the cockpit of their boat? Unannounced? If that is the case, why have they not been shot yet? If I woke up, to find a stranger in my cockpit, I would shoot, then worry about who it WAS.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:26   #38
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Originally Posted by unbusted67 View Post
Although I don't agree that we live in a military state I don't argue that we do live in a punitive state and it makes me nauseous. Everyone is a cop, everyone is a lawyer and everyone is a school principal. America as a whole needs to lighten up.
+1

We plan on spending Christmas in Marathon with my three kids. I was hoping to highlight the great State of Florida to my two older kids.

Florida needs young people like them; straight A, well travelled, world perspective, dual US/Oz citizens - good smart kids.

I hope they are not turned off by unnecessarily harassment.
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:40   #39
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Do we know if these were active cruisers in the mooring field or anchorage? Or possibly an effort to get some of the live aboards into compliance with sewage laws? I've anchored in boot key briefly on my way through for 3 years now and my boat isn't the prettiest. It wouldn't take much for some to assume that I was a live aboard and not paying my way. Nothing wrong with live aboards. But if the boat never moves, and you dont see a pump out boat come by you can be assured that polluting is happening. Then there's having to sneak / steal shore access. Sometimes those that insist that they are not part of the problem, are the actual problem. To the FWC I might look suspect, but to any cruiser who takes a look my 5k dinghy and gear, it's clear that I'm active. Stopping somewhere for months or so is legit, but a mastless dirty boat, kayak dinghy, and never moving is kinda a issue.
From what I hear...the harassment includes those on a mooring ball. They get pumped out automatically every week. And all their paperwork is nice and up to date in marina office. Those anchored out also get pumped out regularly as boot key has always been strict since it became a mooring field with a designated anchorage ( ?).

Also, if you goto the OPs blog it is obvious his is a nice well kept boat. So no, they don't "deserve" the harassment as you imply
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Old 07-12-2013, 12:42   #40
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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While I don't doubt the FWC is being heavy handed, I'm sure there is more to the story.

Hard to say if lawyering up is the appropriate response without more details (who are the targets, how often, is it trainees or established agents, etc...)

You might try talking to the local govt officials. While the FWC is not under their jurisdiction, they likely would have a lot more pull to solve it without lawyers.

Standard routine as I am lead to believe for Florida. Transients are not taxpayers. Those with luxury homes on the water (taxpayers) insist the various cops harrass the boats (riff-raff) that obstruct their personal view. You will not likely get redress since the locals in government are probably directing the activity.

What is particularly baffleing, is that in a place where there is no real industry & where tourism and boats constitute a major business activity that you would, in any way, discourage the activity. You should in fact do everything reasonable to support it.
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Old 07-12-2013, 13:00   #41
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I was not implying anything about the OP or his boat. But there are junk-ish looking boats in the area and it wouldn't be hard to get caught up in a effort to deal with them. Like I said my own vessel is not the prettiest. I care far more about gears and sprockets than gel coat shine. It makes me more susceptible to be classed as one of the problem boats than the folks in nice Island Packets.
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Old 07-12-2013, 13:17   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Standard routine as I am lead to believe for Florida. Transients are not taxpayers. Those with luxury homes on the water (taxpayers) insist the various cops harrass the boats (riff-raff) that obstruct their personal view. You will not likely get redress since the locals in government are probably directing the activity. What is particularly baffleing, is that in a place where there is no real industry & where tourism and boats constitute a major business activity that you would, in any way, discourage the activity. You should in fact do everything reasonable to support it.
The OP was not talking about anchorage or undesired mooring.
This is the City Marina moorings. Some 300 mooring balls installed by the city
Where people are paying for mooring.
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Old 07-12-2013, 13:59   #43
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

I sure would like to hear more from the OP, "Thin Line". I notice that, from his blog, he works at the Marathon City Marina and runs the pump out boat. I would be concerned too, regarding any poor behavior of law enforcement, but I would be slow to accept second hand evidence of the demise of Florida for boaters or the loss of our freedoms in a "police state". My current cruising experience in the Florida Keys, beginning fifty years ago, has not met with any challenges to my freedoms. I've anchored for as long as three months in one location in the Keys and visited about a dozen different anchorage locations repeatedly without ever being questioned by any authority. I am not denying that there have been problems, but it has not been a part of my experience. I'll be returning again to the Florida Keys next month and I will not expect problems. I have been boarded by law enforcement personel in Georgia and the Bahamas,- they were polite and professional. I'll be interested in hearing more from "Thin Line".
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Old 07-12-2013, 14:49   #44
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

I know i might upset some one but,,
Where were the civil rights attorneys when all the fishermen got run out of there? Are you even aware that "city marine" was a thriving fish house?
I sold many,many deepwater grouper back in the day where there is now only a gas dock! Dockside came after the brass monkey, that's where the liveaboards were.

Now a commercial boat coming in on the oceanside would be arrested, fined and run off for being there!
Shame on the attitude and i agree if you don't like it, drop your mooring and go. I had to after working a heck of a hard long job there after 25 years.
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Old 07-12-2013, 16:21   #45
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

A lot of the problem with water cops is their insistence that they don't need probable cause to board for an inspection. This has gotten much worse since 9/11 as the water cops were given lots of fancy new boats to fight terrorism. Since there isn't much terrorism in places like Marathon, they have to come up with other things to do.

These searches have always been questionable under the 4th amendment and would never be tolerated on our roads. The CG claims this right based on a 1790 law but current CG "safety" inspections of recreational boats was never imagined in 1790.

Ohio, Michigan, and Arkansas legislatures have passed laws to restrict boardings without probable cause. It's time to make this the law of the land.
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