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Old 09-12-2013, 17:29   #136
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Be very careful of videotaping our current Gestapo police forces. They DON'T like it. If you do it, make sure you don't use your smart phone. You will be prosecuted for illegal wire tapping, a serious offense. There have been many cases.



Videotaping Police Is Often Cause for Arrest - ABC News



http://www.dvafoto.com/2010/06/three...ivity-illegal/



http://photographyisnotacrime.com/
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Old 09-12-2013, 17:51   #137
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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Originally Posted by CaptForce View Post
Great, you are in absolute agreement that the best plan is to document the harrasment and present this evidence of the wrong behavior. You have added a unified effort of many cruisers to the plan and I agree that that would be helpful. I'm pleased to see that, in the final analysis, we are in total agreement!
In practice we are, and hopefully we can discuss it in the Bahamas this winter.

We are a little behind the weather, so it might be a couple weeks. I have all but decided to skip Boot Key (it was part of the loose plan) and moor in Islamorada with some friends along the way. However, if some kind of "cruise in" were organized I might change my mind. United we stand, divided we will be harassed into extinction.

'
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Old 09-12-2013, 18:08   #138
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I wouldn't waste my time with marathon city mooring field . I've called them asking if there was any prob re the FWC and all I got was denials and was told if you are in accordance with the law you have nothing to worry about. I was also told that the late night "bright light in the porthole" behaviour is all quite legal. Why support marathon if they won't support us? Or even acknowledge a problem?
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Old 09-12-2013, 18:20   #139
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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"Stringing up" the politicians seems vague.
I'm guessing that there are a few politicians out there who might consider such a strategy to be overly specific.
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Old 09-12-2013, 18:25   #140
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Would the anti-theft measures of bright lights and sirens (as well as cameras) that come on when someone steps into the cockpit be of use?
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Old 09-12-2013, 18:28   #141
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Gee guy's it's time to quit sniveling, and go somewhere else !! If ya can't get em to stop with the News Paper, and calls to public officials, pick up the anchor and GO! thats what these sail boats are for !! If ya don't like the set up move ! I would believe if all the moored and anchored boats went somewhere else, it would only take a short while for the shore side bizz's to start screaming bloody murder !!! We always felt that if we were not welcome somewhere we would move !!! It only takes a half hour or less to pull the anchor up and get the hell out of most any place !! Just a thought !!
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Old 09-12-2013, 18:37   #142
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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Gee guy's it's time to quit sniveling, and go somewhere else !! If ya can't get em to stop with the News Paper, and calls to public officials, pick up the anchor and GO! thats what these sail boats are for !! If ya don't like the set up move ! I would believe if all the moored and anchored boats went somewhere else, it would only take a short while for the shore side bizz's to start screaming bloody murder !!! We always felt that if we were not welcome somewhere we would move !!! It only takes a half hour or less to pull the anchor up and get the hell out of most any place !! Just a thought !!
I tend to agree, and am contemplating skipping Marathon later this month, but that means giving in to these tactics, and setting a precedence to be used in the next mooring field, until there is no place left.

Quite a dilemma.


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Old 09-12-2013, 19:32   #143
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

The anti-wiretapping laws are state specific. In Florida:

Florida law makes an exception for in-person communications when the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation, such as when they are engaged in conversation in a public place where they might reasonably be overheard. If you are operating in Florida, you may record these kinds of in-person conversations without breaking the law.

The anti-wiretapping laws also only apply to audio. Recording video beyond ear shot is not wiretapping.

This doesn't mean the cops won't get mad but they'll have to invent another reason than wiretapping and they are going to have trouble making it stick.
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Old 09-12-2013, 19:50   #144
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Believe me! if there moorings are almost empty, and the ancorage is mostly empty, the Idea will get across to the shoreside money makers !! and this style of law inforcement will be discontinued!! Money talks and it will make a change real quick!! The only way to fix this is through media and lack of money being spent by cruisers!! Again why put up with this stuff when theres other places to moor or anchor!! Ive been anchoring for a long time, and if I don't like a place I move!! I don't feel I need to fight the good fight !! If everybody but the liveaboards left, they would have a lot less to do and maybe the folks at the top will get the idea that we are Mobil and we can leave and not return till something gets done to cure this problem !!
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Old 09-12-2013, 20:26   #145
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

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Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
The anti-wiretapping laws are state specific. In Florida:

Florida law makes an exception for in-person communications when the parties do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in the conversation, such as when they are engaged in conversation in a public place where they might reasonably be overheard. If you are operating in Florida, you may record these kinds of in-person conversations without breaking the law.

The anti-wiretapping laws also only apply to audio. Recording video beyond ear shot is not wiretapping.

This doesn't mean the cops won't get mad but they'll have to invent another reason than wiretapping and they are going to have trouble making it stick.


You must not be that familiar with how our police force operates. As shown in the blog I linked too, just because its not law in Florida doesn't mean the cops won't try to pin it on you. Au contraire, they'll charge you, cuff you and arrest you, hassle you and tread on your rights, and it will take a trip to the judge and a bunch of your time and money to see you clear. Most of the people so charged in most states have managed to get off-eventually. This hasn't stopped police from continuing to press charges for this. This is how police intimidation works. They know if there are enough cases like this out there, people will be afraid of retaliation if they film them and go public with it. And rightly so. Lots of cases where people were charged and arrested only after a video went viral on youtube, or had an impact on an important case. Just be careful, you can get into serious trouble with the man this way. I don't suggest it not be done, I think it's the right thing to do and that all cops should have personal cams at all times on public record. But if you're gonna do it you should be aware of the history of repercussions, and put some thought into protecting yourself first. Like not using your phone to record police activity.



http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...e-wear-cameras
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Old 09-12-2013, 21:57   #146
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Originally Posted by pbiJim
I think that there is actually a 30 day grace period for getting a newly purchased boat registered & lettered in Florida if it is not registered elsewhere. I believe that the dated bill of sale will get you by for those 30 days.

Florida Boating Regulations


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Are you saying that an US documented vessel cannot pass through Florida? I'v been out of the US for 20 years and this is the first I heard of this.
I am not saying that at all.

I believe that the letter of the Florida law says that a documented vessel does need a Florida registration after it's been here for a certain period of time. I'd have to do some digging to find the specified time.

Actual practice seems to ignore that silliness all together. I was on a documented vessel that got stopped near Government Cut in Miami. The LEOs asked if the vessel was documented when they saw that it had no letters. The captain answered in the affirmative. That was the end of it. We got a talking to about appropriate speeds in that area & we left.
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Old 09-12-2013, 22:57   #147
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You might consider that our high incarceration rate is one of the reasons the violent crime rate in Europe is twice that of the USA.
What are your sources?
I think you are misinformed
For example
Norway 0.6 for 100 000 inhabitants
France 1.1 for 100 000
Germany 0.8

Etc..

The USA is at 4.4

So around 4 to 5 times higher than in Europe.

But this is not the topic of this thread.
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Old 09-12-2013, 23:00   #148
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We are soon to be classified with the homeless, and moved along at every opportunity in Florida. '
It behooves those of us who live on our boats to watch carefully, and likely align ourselves with, those lobbying on behalf of the homeless. Their lobby is stronger than ours I'd guess. Neither the homeless nor cruisers have an address on land for the government to track us by so government forces us to come up with one for a driver's license although there is no valid policy reason since they can mail tickets and licensing/registration documents to a PO box. I consider those sorts of issues civil rights matters and they concern me deeply.

The extreme anti-cruiser / anti-liveaboard (a term to avoid in Florida) stance in Florida is disheartening and makes me hope my trip back there will not be long. But this anti-cruiser movement is operating on two fronts: (1) resentment over not owing property taxes, having less expensive waterfront views, and allegedly ruining the view for some, i.e. money; and (2) not being trackable and under the thumb of law enforcement, i.e., freedom. It makes sense to fight the battle on both fronts. I'd want a maritime attorney, likely working with a land use attorney, and then I'd also want someone on the civil rights side, possibly trying to get the Miami ACLU office interested. Ultimately, we need to find a way to provide Fourth Amendment protections to boaters, but law enforcement will fight tooth and nail to prevent that.

My legal background is not in the areas I noted above, so I don't think I could help an awful lot, though I learned a lot about land use on the Miami Waterfront Board. Hearing about this kind of harrassment and seeing some of the ridiculous rules in Miami and in Monroe is making me appreciate how much more liveaboard-friendly it is in Maryland.
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Old 09-12-2013, 23:15   #149
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

That place is way over crowded they are prob wanting to push people out I can't see anyone wanting to live there only place I know in the US that charges you for water when you fill up on fuel,what a rotten place.
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:59   #150
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Re: Civil Rights Attorney Needed Marathon FL

Note: This post has no real opinions, suggestions, or solutions. Just a couple of possible observations.

----------------

It would seem to me, that there is a possible reason for this situation that has not been discussed....

Bureaucracies are, without fail territorial. Federal/State State/County County/City and so on. It sounds like somebody in the local bureaucracy pissed in the big boys' cornflakes, and now is suffering retaliation in the form of attempted economic hardship (run off the 300+ boats contributing to the local economy). " Mess with me will you? I'm gonna take away your lunch money little boy".

Doesn't even have to be an enforcement agency you (the bureaucrat) attempted to "big-dog", just someone who the enforcement agency owes a favor to. (Jim-bob... I need ya'll to head down there to Boot Key and make them cruiser folks uncomfortable. Nuthin' illegal, just sorta shake em up.... Know what I mean Jim-bob? How's the missus?)

Problem with this scenario, there are no winners, and really limited solutions. Active confrontation re: a bunch of 20 something, black-glove, rookies. (Which is who Jim-bob is gonna assign to the job if he's got a lick of sense... "Ah hell, they're young, and didn't know no better") is not gonna work out well, no matter how justified. In the words of Ron White, "I didn't know how many of them it was gonna take to kick my a@@, but I knew how many they were gonna use." Smile, even though it kills you. Be church, your grandma, job interview polite. Note any and all incidents in the ships log, including names and badge numbers (if available) of LEO(s). Be diplomatic (the art of repeating "Nice-Doggy", 'till you find a big rock) with all officials on or off the water, state or local, naughty or nice. Never let 'em see you grit your teeth.

Eventually (possibly) the issue is gonna go away. Either because the plan isn't working (We keep hassling them Boss, but they jus' sit there and smile) and we keep hanging out and spending our money. Or because the parties involved (none of whom is us) reach an understanding and have Jim-bob call off the dogs.

Was planning to be in Boot-Key right about now myself... seems that being delayed till spring might not be as bad as it seems.
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