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Old 05-03-2014, 04:30   #31
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Re: Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

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A boat that is VAT-paid but is sold outside the EU loses its VAT-paid status and therefore VAT must be paid if the boat is brought back into the EU.
A good link, thank you Zanshin. I'm also wondering about that phrase but for a different reason. We are non-EU citizens and residents. Our boat was purchased in the EU and is EU VAT paid--but we are searching to obtain proof of the VAT paid status.

Reading the entire sentence, I believe it refers to a boat being physically outside the EU and being sold there--hence the requirement to pay VAT if it is brought back into the EU. But that is just my interpretation.
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:05   #32
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Re: Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

SFH - I don't have a fast internet here, but if the location of the boat is in the EU and the signed bill-of-sale is completed in the EU then your country of residence doesn't matter.
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:48   #33
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Re: Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

The C Of C is overkill, its too hard to get, even Superyachts don't go that far they got a watered down version. Competency is very high in deed. Not to be confused by training. C of C is determined by controlled examinations, a oral (verbal) examination by a surveyor. And long shall it last.
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Old 05-03-2014, 06:59   #34
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Re: Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

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Originally Posted by Oceanride007 View Post
The C Of C is overkill, its too hard to get, even Superyachts don't go that far they got a watered down version. Competency is very high in deed. Not to be confused by training. C of C is determined by controlled examinations, a oral (verbal) examination by a surveyor. And long shall it last.
Not sure what c of c you are referring to , I think this paste from the RYA site is as I understand it

About the ICC

Many European countries require the skipper of a pleasure craft to be able to provide evidence of his or her competence. In practice documentary evidence may seldom be inspected, but it is generally useful and in some countries essential to carry an ICC.
About the ICC
The International Certificate for Operators of Pleasure Craft (commonly referred to as the International Certificate of Competence - ICC) was originally created to facilitate pleasure navigation along the length of the rivers Rhine and Danube.
The evidence of competence required, differed for each of the countries the rivers pass through, which caused difficulties. The United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) Inland Transport Committee Working Party on Inland Water Transport sought to find a solution.
Resolution 40
The rules surrounding the issue of the ICC were initially detailed in UNECE ITC Resolution 14. This resolution has been superseded by an enhanced version, Resolution 40, which now regulates the ICC, stipulating who the ICC can be issued to, the syllabus requirements and the layout of the certificate.
The UK Government has accepted Resolution 40 and has authorised the RYA to issue the ICC on its behalf.
Validity of the ICC
An ICC is valid for 5 years from the date of issue.
If a boat owner requires evidence of competence when visiting another European country the ICC will frequently suffice. It can also be useful for people wishing to charter.
The ICC does not replace the need to comply with any manning requirements imposed by the country in which the boat is registered, wherever in the world the boat may be. Where evidence of competence is required by the country of registration, pleasure boaters must comply with the regulations of both the country of registration (the Flag State) and the requirements of the visited country (the Coastal State).
The ICC should be automatically accepted in countries which have adopted Resolution 40. However of the 56 UNECE countries, able to accept the resolution the UK is one of only a handful which have fully adopted Resolution 40. Many of the eligible countries have not accepted Resolution 40, some still apply Resolution 14 which Resolution 40 was intended to replace and others only apply Resolution 40 in part or with caveats attached.
Wider acceptance
The ICC is however a far more useful document than the Resolution’s formal acceptance would suggest. Although acceptance of the ICC by the visited country should be because the visited country itself has adopted Resolution 40, the ICC is sometimes recognised as an acceptable certificate in the visited country’s national legislation and is quite often accepted on a purely informal basis. Spain, Greece and Portugal, for example, have not adopted Resolution 40 but are still likely to ask visitors for an ICC.
The ICC may be acceptable for visiting foreign flagged vessels, foreign flagged vessels being kept in the Coastal State and / or vessels flagged in the Coastal State. It should never be assumed that the ICC will be accepted as an alternative to the national qualification of the vessel's flag state. The onus is on ICC holders to determine its acceptability by foreign states, as the ICC was never intended to be an alternative to individual national qualification requirements.
Misconception
The informal acceptance of the ICC by many of the EU countries has contributed to the common misconception that the ICC is of EU origin. The ICC is frequently but wrongly thought to be the boating equivalent of the EU driving licence for road vehicles, which all EU member states are obliged to accept.
An ICC allows the holder to voyage internationally but only where the country to be visited has chosen to accept it and subject to any prescriptions made by the visited country.
As the ICC’s validity is determined by the visited country it is not a truly international qualification. However, the ICC is the only international evidence of competence that exists for pleasure boaters in Europe and, through attendance at the UNECE in its role as Secretariat of the European Boating Association, the RYA continues to work to get the ICC more widely accepted in Europe.
This is also explained in the ICC the small print, which is sent out with ICC certificates to provide the certificate holder with information about how that certificate can be used.
ICC required or recommended
The requirement for evidence of competence varies from country to country. Sometimes it is required for coastal waters, sometimes for inland waters, sometimes for neither and sometimes for both.
In very general terms an ICC is required for the inland waterways of Europe and for inland and coastal waters of Mediterranean countries. For the coastal waters of Northern Europe the ICC is generally not required, however to all of these generalisations there are exceptions.
Further information can be found on the Evidence of Competence Abroad page. RYA members will find more specific information in the individual country pages.
Note: where proof of competence is required under the Merchant Shipping Regulations i.e. UK pleasure vessels exceeding both 80 GT and 24m (load line) length (see Merchant Shipping Notice (MSN) 1802) and for any vessel which is used for commercial purposes, the ICC is insufficient and it must be supported by the requisite certificate of competence.
If your vessel is registered in one of the Crown Dependencies, you will need to comply with the regulations applied by that Dependency’s administration, which may differ.
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:24   #35
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Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

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Originally Posted by Zanshin View Post
That's not quite true, when a vessel flagged in a EU stat and clearing into the EU the officials can, and do, request proof of VAT paid status. If that is not forthcoming, then they can, and do, levy immediate VAT according to the local country rate. I posted some links here a couple of weeks ago to (German) threads about what the German authorities do, but there are numerous authoritative links on the web and if I had a faster internet connection here in this anchorage I would find the appropriate legal reference as well. Since this is "easy income" for a country as the VAT is paid upon entry, so they will check - just imagine how happy the Greeks are to get this type of income!

Here's one good link on the topic: ABYA | Information | VAT



No they cannot. Germany for example cannot levy vat on a UK registered boat.
The only make a case if they believe the boat is not correctly imported onto the EU. Vat is simply not an issue for EU registered boats. It's totally over hyped. It can be an issue for non EU boats.




Vat cannot be legally collected only in the country where it is due.

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Old 05-03-2014, 09:46   #36
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Re: Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

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Originally Posted by Prairie Chicken View Post
A good link, thank you Zanshin. I'm also wondering about that phrase but for a different reason. We are non-EU citizens and residents. Our boat was purchased in the EU and is EU VAT paid--but we are searching to obtain proof of the VAT paid status.

Reading the entire sentence, I believe it refers to a boat being physically outside the EU and being sold there--hence the requirement to pay VAT if it is brought back into the EU. But that is just my interpretation.

Yes boat must have been physically exported and sold outside the EU for vat to be due.

Most people ensure the sale contract takes place in Europe.
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Old 29-09-2014, 08:53   #37
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Re: Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

Dear All,

Thank you for this informative post.
I started planning for my early retirement… or at least a few years off work.

Even it shall start in the year 2016, I started worrying about obtaining all the required licenses in time. Only few weeks leave for 2015 and 2016 left in case I have to run some courses or sit in sailing school.

I am German nationality, but living and working overseas for more than ten years.
During these ten years I have obtained my local pleasure vessel license, allowing me to steer up to 50ft through local waters. This I did plentiful, coastal sailing in murky tidal waters.

To avoid the European VAT the dream of desire shall be registered in BVI.

Here comes the question: Do I really NOT need any sort of competence or license to skipper the sailing boat (below 50ft) legally around the world?
What if I want to enter US waters, Europe, or even sail to my German hometown?

How does it look like for SRC/LRC? Unfortunately no such courses in English language offered in this country.

Anyone who skippers a BVI registered pleasure craft around and has experience ad advice?

Many Thanks in advance
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Old 29-09-2014, 15:53   #38
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pirate Re: Certificate of Competency for Leisure Yachts

Dunno where Hoofsmit got his info from but before it was the IC of C it was called the International Helmsman's Certificate... and I got mine in 1984..
Its not hard.. arrange an examiner then take them out in a/your boat.. perform a variety of practical maneuver's.. anchor, mooring, alongside under sail then motor.. while answering questions about buoys/lights/ColRegs etc..
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