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Old 20-05-2012, 13:13   #61
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Lightbulb Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
i wasn't reffering to the case of "ss little devil" per say as i don't belive he has placed her on the crew list.

how ever if she was say from south africa,and had been allowed to join the vessel as a crew member,(paid or un paid),and added to the vessels crewlist to satisfy immigration that she would be leaving by that yacht.

,then changed her mind ,i would argue that if she approached immigration and pleaded an inability to pay an air ticket,the captain would be held responsable to repatriate her at his expense.
A person who formally entered a country on a crew list is a different case. I agree that there might be some problems. But that's not what we were talking about.

I was specifically writing about the OP's case. She flew in; he's got no obligation to fly her home. As DOJ suggested, the OP can put her bags on the pontoon and cast off, if he likes.
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Old 20-05-2012, 13:25   #62
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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A person who formally entered a country on a crew list is a different case. I agree that there might be some problems. But that's not what we were talking about.

I was specifically writing about the OP's case. She flew in; he's got no obligation to fly her home. As DOJ suggested, the OP can put her bags on the pontoon and cast off, if he likes.
as per post #4 if you read the thread
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Old 20-05-2012, 13:38   #63
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Once again, i am not a lawyer nor am I an insurance salesperson. Having said that, there is so much liability here in the States that years ago I decided to purchase a $1MM umbrella liability policy for the sum of <$150 per year (works for more than just the boat...car/house/whatever). Just this kinda stuff that makes that seem like a good decision.
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Old 20-05-2012, 15:36   #64
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

I may have mentioned this before but my one and only major crew problem occurred about 1 1/2 days north of Cabo on a delivery north a few years back. The crew member lost it due to going off his meds and I returned immediately to Cabo san Lucas, bought him a one way ticket stateside and cab fare to the airport and said goodbye.
Considering the cost of doing otherwise and all the hassles with 'migration', etc., I felt it was the cheapest and most expedient course of action.
I recall researching maritime law once I got back and think I discovered that paid crew need to be returned to the port at which they were engaged or words to that effect.
Sailed shorthanded north to the US and just sucked it up. Capt Phil
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Old 20-05-2012, 16:03   #65
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Tenant on a boat?

Simple solution; GTF of my boat .... NOW.

End of story.

Sorry to be so blunt, but people are making twists and turns when the road should be relatively straight. Good luck transposing any knowledge you have of landlord-tenant law in your jurisdiction to a boat in Mexico. That's being extremely myopic.

Dockhead outlines his solution.... great insurance and following the requirements of that to a tee. YMMV in some jurisdictions.

Hell yeah. If someone was on my boat and not welcome and refused to leave I'd call the police.
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Old 20-05-2012, 16:06   #66
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

good grief, makes solo sailing sound a lot more appealing. nice that she mentioned this before sailing with her. personally, with that attitude, I'd dump her.
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Old 20-05-2012, 16:52   #67
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

When I worked in personal injury law over here in Australia we successfully sued a number of boat owners and even the Volunteer Marine Rescue. This is not legal advice, however the basic idea of torts is that you can be held responsible for any harm done to others through your acts and/or omissions. Therefore, you have a duty to consider others. You will find all this on the net. Your standard of care will tun around facts like boating laws, regulations, previous cases and the qualification you proffess to hold.

The classic senario is the power boater who wants to show off, hits the throttle and sends a passenger flying for a back injury or broken limb. We even had the same after a passenger had told the skipper that they had a pre-existing injury and aked that he navigate sensibly. So the skipper took the jet boat into the surf zone, got caught inside a six foot wave and launched vetertical at full throttle sending everyone flying.

Then there is a thing outside the law called a gut notion. If I had someone making the same statements and giving me the same bad vibes, I would be getting her off my boat quick. A waiver will not protect you against your own stupidity!
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Old 20-05-2012, 16:55   #68
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Originally Posted by sailstoo View Post
Once again, i am not a lawyer nor am I an insurance salesperson. Having said that, there is so much liability here in the States that years ago I decided to purchase a $1MM umbrella liability policy for the sum of <$150 per year (works for more than just the boat...car/house/whatever). Just this kinda stuff that makes that seem like a good decision.
$150 per year! I would rather ditch the umbrella, never found them that useful on board anyway .
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:00   #69
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

I believe that the liability of a "captain" is for the safety and well-being of other people on his/her vessel while they are passengers or crew on his/her vessel, while underway or at anchor (in other words - when the vessel is under the care and control of said captain).

If the vessel is docked and someone is staying aboard as a house-guest, I believe the liability is akin that of a home-owner. If the guest trips on the dock, it's the marina's fault, not the captain's.

Likewise for any other off-boat activities the guest may undertake: the guest is responsible for their own well-being.

Now if the OP has some sort of contract or written agreement with this guest regarding their sailing assistance, and/or if OP is compensating the guest in some fashion (eg wages, expenses, paid flight)...that may signal an obligation. But just an informal friendly arrangement... I don't think that creates any off-vessel obligation.

(I am not a lawyer, but I can talk a blue streak )
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:03   #70
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
I believe that the liability of a "captain" is for the safety and well-being of other people on his/her vessel while they are passengers or crew on his/her vessel, while underway or at anchor (in other words - when the vessel is under the care and control of said captain).

If the vessel is docked and someone is staying aboard as a house-guest, I believe the liability is akin that of a home-owner. If the guest trips on the dock, it's the marina's fault, not the captain's.

Likewise for any other off-boat activities the guest may undertake: the guest is responsible for their own well-being.

Now if the OP has some sort of contract or written agreement with this guest regarding their sailing assistance, and/or if OP is compensating the guest in some fashion (eg wages, expenses, paid flight)...that may signal an obligation. But just an informal friendly arrangement... I don't think that creates any off-vessel obligation.

(I am not a lawyer, but I can talk a blue streak )

If the person who trips feels that he or she was significantly hurt and gets a lawyer, that lawyer will go after everyone -- boat owner, marina owner, and maybe the manufacturer of the offending line, cleat, etc. We can imagine what our liability is in a situation all we want, but the reality is that in a lawsuit there are often a lot of targets.
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:12   #71
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
If the person who trips [on a marina dock] feels that he or she was significantly hurt and gets a lawyer, that lawyer will go after everyone -- boat owner, marina owner, and maybe the manufacturer of the offending line, cleat, etc. We can imagine what our liability is in a situation all we want, but the reality is that in a lawsuit there are often a lot of targets.
... and that's why we buy insurance, and let them fend off the idiots. . But this is outside of the "captain's responsibility" that we're discussing, yes?
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:25   #72
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

71 post OF WHAT????

OK here is a something to think about. A skipper has a boat in the bahamas. Friend fly's out for weekend. Joins boat as crew but has a return ticket. Misses the flight date for the return. Next available flight is 3 days away. Skipper says he can stay on the boat till then.

While waiting at the dock trying to get a new flight home the boat sinks.

WHO is responsible for the hotel room to put the friend up in till his flight leaves ???

Also can the friend sue the skipper for not getting him into port ontime for his flight.
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:32   #73
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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71 post OF WHAT????

OK here is a something to think about. A skipper has a boat in the bahamas. Friend fly's out for weekend. Joins boat as crew but has a return ticket. Misses the flight date for the return. Next available flight is 3 days away. Skipper says he can stay on the boat till then.

While waiting at the dock trying to get a new flight home the boat sinks.

WHO is responsible for the hotel room to put the friend up in till his flight leaves ???

Also can the friend sue the skipper for not getting him into port ontime for his flight.
i would think he could definitely approach his embassy as a bona fide shipwreck survivor in need of assistance,and be repatriated no problems,and given travel documents if his were lost
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:42   #74
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

but the embassy would make him pay for the flight. This I know because it happened to a friend of mine in the bahamas.

He spent 1 month in there "HILTON" for fighting in the street. He had entered the country without checking in by boat. After his month in jail the authority told him he could get a flight home or spend 2 years in there jail. The embassy said not our problem (US) but did let him use the phone to get his mother to wire him the funds to pay the ticket.
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Old 20-05-2012, 17:53   #75
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

I have a ladder permanently mounted on my dock for access. Makes me wonder if that would amount to an implicit invite and if someone fell ( invited or not ) while using it, I would be held liable. I need to go out and remove that and the welcome mat.
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