Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-05-2012, 10:47   #46
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
I would be less worried about "liability" and more worried about simple Landlord-tenant law.

If she claims to live there, then without a written agreement you will have a hard time getting her to leave. The law will require due process, properly serving her a 30 day eviction notice, etc. If she chooses to fight you on it you will have very little say in the matter.
Tenant on a boat?

Simple solution; GTF of my boat .... NOW.

End of story.

Sorry to be so blunt, but people are making twists and turns when the road should be relatively straight. Good luck transposing any knowledge you have of landlord-tenant law in your jurisdiction to a boat in Mexico. That's being extremely myopic.

Dockhead outlines his solution.... great insurance and following the requirements of that to a tee. YMMV in some jurisdictions.
__________________

__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 10:49   #47
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
I would be less worried about "liability" and more worried about simple Landlord-tenant law.

If she claims to live there, then without a written agreement you will have a hard time getting her to leave. The law will require due process, properly serving her a 30 day eviction notice, etc. If she chooses to fight you on it you will have very little say in the matter.
packing their bags and leaving them on the dock works ,then relocating to another...gated marina,whilst the crew member is off on an errand......
__________________

__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 10:52   #48
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 357
Send a message via Skype™ to SS Little-Devil
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Well I'd prefer that people just called me Jon instead of Captain. If there's too people on boat we can figure something else out.
__________________
SS Little-Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 11:11   #49
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
You're not liable for that as long as you have non-paying guests on board, as opposed to hired crew. covered
as a lawyer i would love to see you argue that one with the immigration in trinidad!!
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 11:13   #50
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Different parts of the world have different customs.
In Aussieland if anyone calls themself Captain, it's assumed they are qualified, registered captains. Anyone else using the title is being an arrogant twit.
Skipper is for anyone in charge of a vessel.

A bit of background on 'skipper'.
The term is an anglosized version from the dutch. 'Schip' referred to a smaller trading vessels, and the men in command were referred to as 'schippers'. They usually had no formal qualifications but were experienced and extremely capable seamen.

I blame Captain Ron for the confusion. Near the end when the coastguard is calling he says... "That's you. You're the captain now..." everyone's been a 'captain' ever since
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 11:19   #51
Registered User
 
VirtualVagabond's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Boat: CT 54... for our sins!
Posts: 2,084
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
Well I'd prefer that people just called me Jon instead of Captain. If there's too people on boat we can figure something else out.
I'd feel really strange if people started calling me Jon...

Vic
__________________
One must live the way one thinks, or end up thinking the way one lives - Paul Bourget

www.windwanderer.weebly.com
VirtualVagabond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 11:32   #52
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by xymotic View Post
I would be less worried about "liability" and more worried about simple Landlord-tenant law.

If she claims to live there, then without a written agreement you will have a hard time getting her to leave. The law will require due process, properly serving her a 30 day eviction notice, etc. If she chooses to fight you on it you will have very little say in the matter.

I would see that situation as a bit of a challenge .

Given that no legal requirement to also feed her (unless you guys have some very old ball landlord laws!), at least none that could be enforced before she got hungry .........then as soon as she goes ashore the boat moves . For legal purposes might rent the dock berth for another week, and be willing to let her still use it . If it ever got to court I would claim she had still been welcome onboard - and that she not being aware of where the boat had gone was a he said - she said situation.

Of course I am not a lawyer - I just like to get out of bed earlier than the other fella .
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 11:59   #53
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
as a lawyer i would love to see you argue that one with the immigration in trinidad!!
Immigration has nothing to do with it. It's a civil matter. A paid, professional crew member might claim that plane tickets are part of an oral agreement. A wacko guest wanting to squeeze a plane ticket out of you would have to sue and prove that such an agreement existed; also that she was a paid crew member. This falls under the heading of "anyone can, theoretically, sue you, anytime, for anything" - technically true, but generally doesn't happen. You guys worry too much.

In the OP's case, she might just as well sue for palimony - claiming he promised to love her forever and share all his property. Could it happen? Sure, but she would have to prove it in court, just like with plane tickets.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 12:20   #54
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Immigration has nothing to do with it. It's a civil matter. A paid, professional crew member might claim that plane tickets are part of an oral agreement. A wacko guest wanting to squeeze a plane ticket out of you would have to sue and prove that such an agreement existed; also that she was a paid crew member. This falls under the heading of "anyone can, theoretically, sue you, anytime, for anything" - technically true, but generally doesn't happen. You guys worry too much.

In the OP's case, she might just as well sue for palimony - claiming he promised to love her forever and share all his property. Could it happen? Sure, but she would have to prove it in court, just like with plane tickets.
so why is it that airlines don't let non nationals board without a return ticket?

as far as i know ANY person on a vessels crew list (arriving in many foreign ports that demand onward ticket),are the captains responsability,till the immigration sign them off the crew list.

if they can't or won't buy a ticket,they will remain on your crew list,untill you sign them off to another yacht in the country,or leave with them.or buy them a ticket.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 12:44   #55
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,737
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by atoll View Post
so why is it that airlines don't let non nationals board without a return ticket?

as far as i know ANY person on a vessels crew list (arriving in many foreign ports that demand onward ticket),are the captains responsability,till the immigration sign them off the crew list.

if they can't or won't buy a ticket,they will remain on your crew list,untill you sign them off to another yacht in the country,or leave with them.or buy them a ticket.
She flew in. If you'll read the original post.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 12:54   #56
Registered User
 
captainKJ's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 3rd wave passed the sea wall
Boat: private yacht always moving
Posts: 1,388
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
She flew in. If you'll read the original post.
BUT does she have a return ticket. It is VERY easy to fly into a foreign country without a return ticket. Take a piece of paper, make a header on it with the boat name and numbers. Say you are joining the yacht as crew, then it becomes the boats responsibility to fly her home. Has the owner seen the return ticket?

this thread goes on and on
__________________
captainKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 12:55   #57
Senior Cruiser
 
atoll's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: gettin naughty on the beach in cornwall
Boat: 63 custom alloy sloop,macwester26,prout snowgoose 37 elite catamaran!
Posts: 9,311
Images: 75
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
She flew in. If you'll read the original post.
i wasn't reffering to the case of "ss little devil" per say as i don't belive he has placed her on the crew list.

how ever if she was say from south africa,and had been allowed to join the vessel as a crew member,(paid or un paid),and added to the vessels crewlist to satisfy immigration that she would be leaving by that yacht.

,then changed her mind ,i would argue that if she approached immigration and pleaded an inability to pay an air ticket,the captain would be held responsable to repatriate her at his expense.
__________________
my catamaran building project updates http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...36#post2502136
atoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 13:02   #58
Marine Service Provider
 
Tony B's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Presently in Rogersville, Al
Boat: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin
Posts: 695
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Regardless of dictionary definitions, it is relatively common to refer to a boat owner or to get their attention on the 3rd coast by saying "hey Captain" when you didn't know their name. When I ran crew boats and supply boats in the Gulf of Mex as a commercial capt. 100 Ton Master, they referred to me as Tony. The only time anyone asked to speak to the captain was for loading and unloading instructions. Once they knew out names, they referred to us as Tony or Mark or whoever.
It is very informal in the Gulf. A person is only "Captain" until you know their name.
__________________
Mainship 36 DC - 1986
Retired and Full Time Cruising the Eastern U.S. inland Waterways
www.FreeBoatProjects.com
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 13:03   #59
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,342
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by captainKJ View Post
BUT does she have a return ticket. It is VERY easy to fly into a foreign country without a return ticket. Take a piece of paper, make a header on it with the boat name and numbers. Say you are joining the yacht as crew, then it becomes the boats responsibility to fly her home. Has the owner seen the return ticket?

this thread goes on and on
It sure does! Captain vs Skipper.. who cares!

Unless he flew her in, if she didnt arrive on his boat I dont believe he has any responsibility does he? anyway.... send her packing!
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-05-2012, 13:09   #60
Registered User
 
captainKJ's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: 3rd wave passed the sea wall
Boat: private yacht always moving
Posts: 1,388
Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
It sure does! Captain vs Skipper.. who cares!

Unless he flew her in, if she didnt arrive on his boat I dont believe he has any responsibility does he? anyway.... send her packing!
Why dont we do this to settle the argument. SOMEONE tell me there boat name in the bahamas and tell me where you are, let me fly in and see what immigration does when I say I need a flight home and have been staying on this boat and here is a piece of paper saying that along with email correspondence and such, and telling them I have no money.
__________________

__________________
captainKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:46.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.