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Old 19-05-2012, 03:46   #16
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

I would TELL her to move on. As for signing anything forget it. Sounds like she wants a free ride,,get rid of her soon is my advice. Something sounds fishy
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Old 19-05-2012, 05:29   #17
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

First off, the advice from lawyers isn't any better than opinion and will cost you $250/ hour so CF is a bargain.

Next, as an owner/skipper everything is your responsibility and your fault. Unless you have a wife or a dog, then you can blame them. Maybe not the wife.

Seriously, life has inherent risk, sailing even more so. Things break and fail constantly dealing with them is part of the reward of sailing. Do diligence in preparing for problems and safety is good and necessary but at a point it becomes obsession and takes away all of the joy and freedom of spirit. A good sailor is not measured by the number and types of problems he has but by how he responds to them.
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Old 19-05-2012, 05:33   #18
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Another thought, it sounds like you may have a stray cat. Feed it and give it a nice warm place to sleep and you will never be able to get rid of it until it finds a better deal.
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Old 19-05-2012, 05:38   #19
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Why don't you sit her down and ask her exactly what she meant by her statement? If you don't like the answer (e.g. you think she may be setting you up for a lawsuit), tell her she's no longer welcome as crew.
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Old 19-05-2012, 05:45   #20
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

I think sometimes we get a little carried away with this whole captain thing.
I am a boat owner and do not call my self a captain. I am the owner. I am no more liable for what happens on my boat than I would be in my house (if I had one - I live aboard).
As for this chick. I think she is trying to get a captains license at the same time trying to find a rich guy and a big yacht to live in.
Right now, her ststus is just a guest. Depending on local laws, she could be considered a hired independent contractor. She is working for you (teaching you the ropes, so to speak and her pay is your signature for documenting her sea time. In that case she would be legally liable for herself because she is a contractor.
Not a lot different than if someone comes on your property to clear some trees out in exchange for the firewood.
I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 19-05-2012, 05:45   #21
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
Why don't you sit her down and ask her exactly what she meant by her statement? If you don't like the answer (e.g. you think she may be setting you up for a lawsuit), tell her she's no longer welcome as crew.
excellent advice!
i like to give people the benefit of the doubt,but as dave pointed out there are a lot of headcases out there.

i can think of two instances where one friend had his bank a/c cleaned out,and another served time inside,in both cases by women they invited back to the boat..........
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Old 19-05-2012, 06:31   #22
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Originally Posted by jmackay View Post
First off, the advice from lawyers isn't any better than opinion and will cost you $250/ hour so CF is a bargain.

Advice, like anything else, is usually worth what you pay for it. Internet advice is the cheapest...

It is similar to obtaining medical diagnostic advice here on CF. There is no such thing as a stupid question but there are stupid places to ask it.
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Old 19-05-2012, 06:37   #23
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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Advice, like anything else, is usually worth what you pay for it. Internet advice is the cheapest...

It is similar to obtaining medical diagnostic advice here on CF. There is no such thing as a stupid question but there are stupid places to ask it.

I'm with DAVID. There's nothing wrong with discussion. It's an odd situation, and feedback from others, while not legal advice, might be helpful. I liked the 'stray cat' analogy, and something does seem off here.

As for a lawyer's advice, she would tell you to get insurance. She couldn't tell you what would apply in a a hypothetical situation. there is no "legal advice" for this situation until something specific happens.

You've let a total stranger into your life, and women can be as dangerous as men in some ways. Show her the door.
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Old 19-05-2012, 09:37   #24
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Thanks guys. I have insurance and I spoke with her yesterday. While she does. It agree 100% with everything I said, I'm confident enough to let her stay until her scheduled fly out date of May 26th.

Today there will be 6 of us on the boat. Just going to focus on a nice day out.

Thanks!
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Old 19-05-2012, 09:40   #25
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

Devil, perhaps something got lost in the transalation from Canadian to US-English...but assuming your friend is not crazy (radical thought) just misinformed, she may be confusing her recent status as paid crew on a documented vessel, with her current status of guest on an undocumented vessel.

With vessel documentation, paid crew are entitled to repatriation if something goes very wrong. And not so long ago, at least for the US, the local US Embassy would pay for that if the crew were stranded, i.e. if a captain abandoned an old junker and her crew far from home.

She might just be unaware that she's not on a documented vessel (as an alien, you can't get US documentation) and she's now just a guest, not paid crew.

Heck, she's not even in America anymore, she's in California, The Bear Republic. <VBG>
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Old 19-05-2012, 09:56   #26
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

1. Dont take on crew that you dont know or have any even minor inkling will be problematic.
2. Only take on crew that you know personally.
3. Always give a safety speech before going out. Lifejackets, hand holds, overboard procedure. etc.
4. and yes: "It IS time for her to find another boat to "live" on."

if you need help learning to sail I would advise trying to crew on some of the boats in the local racing fleet. It's fast and in depth experience.
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Old 19-05-2012, 21:23   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hud3
Why don't you sit her down and ask her exactly what she meant by her statement? If you don't like the answer (e.g. you think she may be setting you up for a lawsuit), tell her she's no longer welcome as crew.
All caveats about internet advice apply but I am with Hud on this.

Waiver, no waiver, captain, no captain, guest, crew, vistor, dockwalker, some kid who sneaks aboard while you aren't there! etc. etc.

It is your boat. If someone falls down and decides to see a lawyer, they will. If negligence is found you may end up paying.

However, clarifying with her that you are not her "master and commander" would be a must do for me. The fact that she said it doesn't worry me. She is misinformed. How she reacts to you telling her that she is not your burdened property would be key. If she gets stinky and argumentative, I have my answer. If she says, "That makes sense, I understand" then I feel better.

If I were taking on long term crew, i.e. for a passage, I would have something standard drawn up, call it a waiver if you like, but basically spell out the relationship, the reponsibilites and the limits of each parties expected responsibilites. It may have little bearing in court in terrms of negligence, but at least you could show that everyone was informed.

The document could be commented on by a lawyer but basically spell out things like, airfares to and from foreign ports, carrying your own medical insurance including evacuation insurance, sharing of expenses, responsibilities on board (cooking, standing watch, able seaman duties), duty to follow the laws of all countries visited (especially drug and gun laws), your ability to terminate the relationship at any time in any port for any reason with no repatriation duty on your part.

Probably some other stuff I haven't figured out but I think this would be a must have on some level. Especially if the person is going to sleep (if not live) on my boat.

BTW - To me "captain" is a term I reserve for the licensed in recognition of their effort. Everyone else is a skipper. OTOH anyone who insists on being called captain is an expletive deleted egomaniac...

In my sailing club of about 100 active saillors there is only one I call captain. He truly is one in every sense of the word. Salt water runs through his veins. Everyone I know calls him Captain.
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Old 19-05-2012, 21:56   #28
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That may be your view but captain is a term used everywhere to mean the person in command.

Dave
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Old 19-05-2012, 22:13   #29
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That may be your view but captain is a term used everywhere to mean the person in command.

Dave
At the risk of being pedantic this is the definition that I most agree with.

Scroll down to Skipper.

According to this citation - I am sure there are other contrary ones

A Captain is licensed and in command
A skipper can be non licensed and in command

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_captain
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Old 19-05-2012, 22:13   #30
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Re: Captain's Liability For Guests Aboard

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That may be your view but captain is a term used everywhere to mean the person in command.

Dave

When I go through a bridge the bridge tender always addresses me as "captain." They never say "skipper."
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