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Old 03-01-2011, 14:47   #46
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Originally Posted by frank_f View Post
The Canadian card really has nothing to do with competency.

It's a varying exam of T/F and multiple guess answers designed specifically to fill government coffers.

It's about knowing what buoy is what and what safety equipment to have on board. Not that this isn't important, but it is just rote memory. There are no minimum hours on the water with a licensed professional (like a drivers license or a USCG six-pack), it's just "can you answer these questions the way we want you to?"

There are no questions like, "You're in the Northern hemisphere and day anchored on the steep lee of an island when the wind backs 180 putting you on a lee shore. The wind pipes up from Force 2 to Force 5. You have a furling jib and a three reef main on a fractional sloop sailing vessel. No other sails are available to you. Your anchor starts to drag and your engine fails to start.

What is your sail configuration to beat off this shore and why?

With the wind backing and the appearance of jet stream cirrus clouds, what type of weather can you expect over the next 6-12 hours?"

It would be kind of cool if they did ask these type of questions though.
Methinks there'd be fewer boats on the water....lol
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Old 03-01-2011, 15:05   #47
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Methinks there'd be fewer boats on the water....lol
Yeah, sorry. I'm land locked and frozen over right now. I ask myself these type of questions through out the winter to try and keep my brain from freezing over as well. It's always, "What if,...." if you're a sailor, isn't it?
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Old 03-01-2011, 15:17   #48
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Yeah, sorry. I'm land locked and frozen over right now. I ask myself these type of questions through out the winter to try and keep my brain from freezing over as well. It's always, "What if,...." if you're a sailor, isn't it?
LOL... I did'nt say it was a bad thing...
There's enough fools already who don't realise boats don't have brakes.. or that jet bikes need propulsion to manouvere... not just decelerate to escape a problem like in a car
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Old 03-01-2011, 15:50   #49
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My boat was boarded to check for safety stuff and fined for having the Ontario liscence in my apartment and a hoareshoe life ring and no heaving line...I was not on the boat that day. I could have gone to court and provided proof that these deficiencies were radified and that I was new to boating but who has the time.
I agree that boaters should have the card but also agree that keeping a close watch on a starboard tack is also important as I have changed course for a boat on a port tack that wasn't keeping a close watch. Hopefully we can all be as safe as we can out there.
I think personal watercraft was the instigator of all this and final requirement for all boaters just part of the plan. Too many casualties on pwc were the reason.
As a new boater...sailed Windsurfers since I was a young pup that don't require a card is weird too. Then again, flying around at extreame speed in high winds was a thrill. Not that I crashed into anyone or thing but knowledge of nautical stuff on the exam were not particularily useful as a Windsurfer.
I have my boaters card and VHF card and will keep reading my "Practical Seamanship" as we can never have enough knowledge while on the water I figure.
Now, lets all be safe out there...
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Old 03-01-2011, 16:02   #50
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LOL... I did'nt say it was a bad thing...
There's enough fools already who don't realise boats don't have brakes.. or that jet bikes need propulsion to manouvere... not just decelerate to escape a problem like in a car
I know what you mean.

I don't have extensive water experience but last year, I watched a guy dock his power boat. He was in the slip (the hard part of getting into the slip was done) and, to my mind, only needed to add a little more reverse for a smooth docking (did I mention that the boat was already in reverse? Prop walk and all).

Apparently, I was wrong. The correct procedure seemed to be switching to forward, gunning the throttles full, bashing the stem against the end of the dock and riding the stem up on top of the dock until the transom was almost under water.

Huumph, who'da thunk it? Guess I have more to learn.

He has a Canadian boating card. Shows you what they're worth.
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Old 03-01-2011, 16:43   #51
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Originally Posted by frank_f View Post
I know what you mean.

I don't have extensive water experience but last year, I watched a guy dock his power boat. He was in the slip (the hard part of getting into the slip was done) and, to my mind, only needed to add a little more reverse for a smooth docking (did I mention that the boat was already in reverse? Prop walk and all).

Apparently, I was wrong. The correct procedure seemed to be switching to forward, gunning the throttles full, bashing the stem against the end of the dock and riding the stem up on top of the dock until the transom was almost under water.

Huumph, who'da thunk it? Guess I have more to learn.

He has a Canadian boating card. Shows you what they're worth.
A Canadian boating card is not a prerequisite for such incidents. In the 1960s, my Dad accepted delivery of his boat in Tiburon and took it across the Bay to dock in Oakland. Paralleling the dock, a 90-degree turn to port was needed to enter the berth. Dad accomplished that nicely, and was centered in the dock. He was coming in a bit fast, however, so he applied more throttle. He thought the transmission was set in reverse, but it was in forward, so he crashed into the dock. A couple of weeks later the boat was re-equipped too sport a steel plate on the bow.

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Old 03-01-2011, 16:52   #52
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My boat was boarded to check for safety stuff and fined for having the Ontario liscence in my apartment and a hoareshoe life ring and no heaving line...I was not on the boat that day. I could have gone to court and provided proof that these deficiencies were radified and that I was new to boating but who has the time.
I agree that boaters should have the card but also agree that keeping a close watch on a starboard tack is also important as I have changed course for a boat on a port tack that wasn't keeping a close watch. Hopefully we can all be as safe as we can out there.
I think personal watercraft was the instigator of all this and final requirement for all boaters just part of the plan. Too many casualties on pwc were the reason.
As a new boater...sailed Windsurfers since I was a young pup that don't require a card is weird too. Then again, flying around at extreame speed in high winds was a thrill. Not that I crashed into anyone or thing but knowledge of nautical stuff on the exam were not particularily useful as a Windsurfer.
I have my boaters card and VHF card and will keep reading my "Practical Seamanship" as we can never have enough knowledge while on the water I figure.
Now, lets all be safe out there...
I can kind of see it on the horseshoe collar. After all, if it's not connected to the boat, what good is it? Yeah, it'll keep Jack afloat but if you can't find him, what good did it do?

That's all well and fine but, they boarded you when you weren't on water? That's a violation of a different set of rights. While you are tied up to a dock or on a mooring in Canada, you are in a residence with all the rights therein (i.e. no illegal search and seizure, no unjust cause, no " we just decided to kick your doors in to see what you are doing.") Anchor is a different story funny enough.

When we get to that point, we need to check the symbol on the helmet. If it has what looks like a bunch of "L's" stuck together in the centre or something wielding the same sort of power, we need to do something.
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Old 03-01-2011, 17:07   #53
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A Canadian boating card is not a prerequisite for such incidents. In the 1960s, my Dad accepted delivery of his boat in Tiburon and took it across the Bay to dock in Oakland. Paralleling the dock, a 90-degree turn to port was needed to enter the berth. Dad accomplished that nicely, and was centered in the dock. He was coming in a bit fast, however, so he applied more throttle. He thought the transmission was set in reverse, but it was in forward, so he crashed into the dock. A couple of weeks later the boat was re-equipped too sport a steel plate on the bow.

Oooo, that's definitely an 'ouchy'. Nothing a little spackle and paint won't cure
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Old 03-01-2011, 17:44   #54
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I can kind of see it on the horseshoe collar. After all, if it's not connected to the boat, what good is it? Yeah, it'll keep Jack afloat but if you can't find him, what good did it do?

That's all well and fine but, they boarded you when you weren't on water? That's a violation of a different set of rights. While you are tied up to a dock or on a mooring in Canada, you are in a residence with all the rights therein (i.e. no illegal search and seizure, no unjust cause, no " we just decided to kick your doors in to see what you are doing.") Anchor is a different story funny enough.

When we get to that point, we need to check the symbol on the helmet. If it has what looks like a bunch of "L's" stuck together in the centre or something wielding the same sort of power, we need to do something.
My boat was being sailed by my brother. I will refuse to be boarded as I do have all the safty stuff now and do agree that permission to board is per the owner...and I can show it...I am new to the big boat thing.
A boat traveling at 8 knots will be quite some distance from a MOB in seconds and out of range of any of the safty equiptment...or utilize a harness when singlehanded.
Donno about the helmet thing. Perhaps you could clarify.
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Old 03-01-2011, 17:56   #55
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In edit of message 52, at anchor in Canada, you are connected to Canadian soil but are considered a temporary resident since you have no fixed (read 'tax paying') address. This means that the Canadian Coasties are free to 'jack-boot' their way onto your boat at any given time.

Rant off and I promise to be nice.
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Old 03-01-2011, 18:10   #56
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I am glad that there are sooo many agencies out on the water should I miss something that is not in many of the books I have read, should need them. Having them inspect my boat would be better at the dock. Why not.
Interpretation of the safety gear is just that.
We all need to just ask the right questions and be as safe as we can. That's whats important.
I am a permenet resident and try to live by the rules.
C'est la vive...
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Old 03-01-2011, 18:40   #57
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My boat was being sailed by my brother. I will refuse to be boarded as I do have all the safty stuff now and do agree that permission to board is per the owner...and I can show it...I am new to the big boat thing.
A boat traveling at 8 knots will be quite some distance from a MOB in seconds and out of range of any of the safty equiptment...or utilize a harness when singlehanded.
Donno about the helmet thing. Perhaps you could clarify.
Nope, you are absolutely correct, I misunderstood that your boat was underway without you.

My thought is that you may have been boarded illegally. If you are underway, you are like a car in a R.I.D.E. program.

You are right about boat traveling at 8 knots. In 10 sec., the boat will have traveled 704 ft. That's quite a long line. Unless someone was able to discharge the MOB gear immediately, this person would have slim chances in rough seas.

The helmet is a WW2 reference, and on reflection, I shouldn't have used it. My apologies to the CCG and their families.

Sorry to drag us away from the topic.
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Old 03-01-2011, 19:11   #58
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My last sail this season was with a good inexperienced crew who handed his midships spring line to a woman on the dock who led the line forward. He apologizes after doing this as I was not aware.
Inexperienced helmsmen and crew can sail a boat.
Sailing is about experience. I did land my boat single handed this season (my second season) out of neccesity. My crew was inexperienced and elderly.
This knowledge was not gained by taking the card course but by gut feeling. The card will not do that but many voyages I guess will.
My apologies to all out there who know that they are not worthy of having to pass a test.
I still think it is a good thing to hope that all know the basics of nautical seamanship.
2 thumbs up for the card...Just hope all those will remember and apply.
Later
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Old 03-01-2011, 19:17   #59
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OK, I blew the distance thing entirely.

60D=ST

Solve for D is D=ST/60.

Speed = 8 knots
Time = 10 sec = 10/60 = .167 minutes

D= (8*.167)/60 = 0.0223 Nautical miles (1 NM =6076 ft)
So D = 0.0223 *6076 = 135.5 ft not 704 ft, correct?

So, we can make your MOB with 100 meters ( around 325') of rope.

Sorry, took the 10 seconds as 10 minutes and a NM as 5820 feet (land mile).

I am so losing it today, I need a water fix.
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Old 03-01-2011, 19:29   #60
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jjones, whether you have a card or not had nothing to do with the outcome of your boat being boarded- you didn't have the registration on board, and you had the wrong lifering. Having the PCOC in your hand wouldn't have changed anything... and neither would not having it. Maybe one of the "many books" you read should have been Transport Canada's "Safe Boating Guide"- it tells you exactly what equipment your boat has to have, and it even has pretty pictures so that there is no question about interpretation. it would have saved you some money.
Sail and powered pleasure craft over 9 m and up to 12 m (29'6"- 39'4") - Transport Canada
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