Can I Be Stopped in International Waters ?

[Stillraining]

Originally Posted by nickkutzko

i was just wondering if i was going from the east coast of canada into int'l waters down to the caribean can i be stopped in int'l waters. Also when im in the caribean can i be stopped by the USGC, dont they just have jurisdiction in american waters. Also what would be the best method for avoiding detection from a route from canada to the caribean. this is all hypothetical of course

Have a good crop this year did ya...


I'm hoping to get boarded by erps someday...I will finally meet the bum at least that way..

[dana-tenacity]

I was boarded by the USCG in international waters on a NZ flagged vesssel. Six guys with guns, one jumps on board then says "permission to board".
I asked what would have happened had I said no, his answer "we would have come on board anyway".

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

Gord,
I may be wrong, but didn't the owner of the motor yacht Arc Royal win his claim for damages when the boat was ripped apart, some years ago?

The only Arc Royal of which I'm aware., is/was HMS "Ark Royal", a British WW2 Aircraft Carrier, torpeedoed (by "U81") & sunk in 1941.
Notwithstanding, were the destructive search deemed unreasonable & illegal, you may be right - otherwise ...

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

I was boarded by the USCG in international waters on a NZ flagged vesssel. Six guys with guns, one jumps on board then says "permission to board".
I asked what would have happened had I said no, his answer "we would have come on board anyway".

Civilized people ask permission PRIOR to entering your country / property / home. Asking late can cost the visitor dearly in places where it is a norm to carry a gun (like the US, or any vessel carrying parachute flares, a Very pistol, etc.).

I would consider such a boarding an act of international terrorism and shoot first. Not so much to protect myself as to set an example.

It seems the USCG has been converted from a coast guard into just another blind tool of American imperialism (and Lenin was right!).

BTW How far do I have to keep off American coasts to avoid such friendly visits? I am 2750 Nm off now but have a sailing boat, can move.

barnie

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I would consider such a boarding an act of international terrorism and shoot first. Not so much to protect myself as to set an example.

barnie

Shooting at 6 military trained guys with guns. That'll teach 'em.

Jim

[SeaCow]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

I was boarded by the USCG in international waters on a NZ flagged vesssel. Six guys with guns, one jumps on board then says "permission to board".
I asked what would have happened had I said no, his answer "we would have come on board anyway".

Where were you sailing when this happened?

[SeaCow]

I cant dispute the part about treaties etc. But this was discussed a few weeks ago here IIRC, and the law of the sea treaty was posted that most countries have signed, which basically said this for Intl waters - ie beyond the max 12 nm limit:

-You can only be boarded by authorities from your flagged country, or by a vessel that has an official from your flag country aboard in official capacity (joint ops etc).

Or

-The boarding vessel has tangible evidence of drug running, etc...

So maybe the second part is where treaties come in etc.. Of course the US makes up stuff at will when they want something "We think they are running drugs" and of course no country will ask them for any probably cause....

[Martinini]

Let me see if I have this right. Navies and Coast Guards can pretty much board anybody they want, flying any countries flag, any where in International waters----Except for Suspected Somali Pirate boats!!! Much safer for the boarding party if the vessel being boarded doesn't have weapons capable of sinking the boarders vessel.
And I think US law enforcement has streched the law, to do things they shouldn't.

[TrevC]

Any vessel that forcefully boards another without just cause in international waters deserves to be sent straight to the bottom. USCG or similar is no exception.

Just my opinion

[Chief Engineer]

You guys are too much.

I'm sorry....if you don't have or not engaged in anything wrong...why worry?

It is funny that not one link has been posted about this being a common practice.

I have NEVER had an unpleasant boarding on either private or commercial vessel.

[hellosailor]

"Let me see if I have this right. Navies and Coast Guards can pretty much board anybody they want, flying any countries flag, any where in International waters----Except for Suspected Somali Pirate boats!!!"
No, you've got it all wrong. The suspected pirate boats can be boarded on the high seas as well. The problem is, as military personnel have openly said in interviews, that there's no law against being in a boat with heavy weapons in international waters, and unless they can find EVIDENCE OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES, all the can do is waste their time boarding the boats, admiring the arms, and waving goodbye.
If the men say "We're fishermen, we lost our nets, we use the guns to defend ourselves against pirates and sharks" there's nothing that can be done, legally.

[TrevC]

"If you don't have anything to hide, then why not let the cops tear apart your car in a search?" or your house, etc. I've heard arguments like this so many times before. It absolutely blows my mind that people consider being "boarded" or searched without just cause to be acceptable, regardless of where you are. Why do people think this is OK? Why is it OK to be considered guilty until proven innocent?

I guess this is just the new American (and to some extent, world) attitude these days.

[AK_sailor]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

...I would consider such a boarding an act of international terrorism and shoot first. ....

Originally Posted by TrevC

Any vessel that forcefully boards another without just cause in international waters deserves to be sent straight to the bottom. USCG or similar is no exception...

The forum rules about being nice inhibit me from giving the sarcastic answer that comes to mind. So I will confine myself to the obvious.

Even assuming you cruise with a very well stocked arms locker, your chances of winning a firefight with a military boarding team are slim to none. If, due to your Rambo-like abilities, you somehow defy the odds and win that shootout you still have their patrol mothership to contend with. Even the smallest patrol boat would typically mount a 50 caliber (12.7mm) machine gun. Larger patrol craft would mount 20mm, 40mm, or even 76mm automatic cannons. A couple of bursts from any of these would reduce you and your crew to a bloody pulp, and your vessel to splinters. And they could do so from far beyond the range of any weapon you are likely to have.

While I sympathize with your rightous indignation about being boarded, the reallity of it is that you have little choice but to comply, and then complain later to your government. If you were so foolish as to shoot first, they would send you and your vessel to the bottom, and report that you resisted a lawful request to board and they took appropriate action. You would not be able to dispute that claim, since what was left of your boat would be on the bottom, and you would be fish food.

[hellosailor]

"Why is it OK to be considered guilty until proven innocent?"
Eh, because you are French? Under the Napoleonic Code and many other legal systems, it is your burden to prove you are innocent. The US concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is the oddball exception to the universal standard.

[paradix]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Why is it OK to be considered guilty until proven innocent?"
Eh, because you are French? Under the Napoleonic Code and many other legal systems, it is your burden to prove you are innocent. The US concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is the oddball exception to the universal standard.

Both wrong.

- France is a member of the EU and is bound by the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights which explicitly states "Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law".

- The US Constitution is one of the few in the western world which does NOT explicitly state the "innocent until proven guilty" principle. It is often inferred from the 5th 6th and 14th amendments, but it's not in there as of right.