Can I Be Stopped in International Waters ?

[Chief Engineer]

They turned away quite a large number of conventioneers at the border.

I know of two guys one 20 years clean and one 15 years clean that were not allowed entry.

You need some kind of "dispensation" from the guvmint.

Originally Posted by Canibul

I was pretty amazed recently to read that a US citizen cannot legally cross into Canada if he has a DUI/DWI on his record. Someone told me this and I didn't believe it, so checked into it. It's true. They consider DWI a felony. If they check you on the computer and it comes up, you are refused entry.

[Gaucho Marino]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Ok, so I'm a bumpkin from the south and have no idea. What's a Newfie?

The term "Newfie" is a Canadian term of endearment to describe a native from Newfoundland, our eastern most province. Very rugged, honest, fun loving individuals that over the years have endeared themselves to the Canadian society to which they belong.

Jorge

[TrevC]

...and they drink this stuff.

[Kathleen]

I love how threads meander. When reading this one, I started to ponder legalities. By the end, I'm humming "Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money." So I guess the consensus is "Authorities get to board if they have probable cause. And they determine what is probable. Right?

Most of those who I know who have been boarded say the USCG have been absolutely nice as can be.

~Kathleen

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Kathleen

"Authorities get to board if they have probable cause. And they determine what is probable. Right?

Actually, when those authorities come with trained men, armed with machine guns, they "get" to board any damned time they please!

That is really the short answer to "can I be stopped?" Yes, you CAN. They CAN stop you anywhere, anytime. Whether or not such stops are LEGAL is a whole different question! The legalities are a matter for your lawyer and theirs to work out in a courtroom, in front of a judge and/or jury.

Of course, you are the captain of your boat. It is perfectly reasonable, as others have pointed out, for you to ask them to delay boarding because at this time, or in this place, it would endanger your boat. But unless you are willing to get into a full-scale gunfight with them, when they demand that you stop now or they will shoot, the legalities of the boarding are pretty much irrelevant.

[witzgall]

Since the original poster has only posted here once, and has not replied, I can only surmise that he is a troll planted by the USCG to identify deviant sailors. Everyone who responded to this post is being tracked.

Damm, I responded...

[Red Mantis]

Originally Posted by TrevC

Customs/immigration already takes away my passport and tells me to "go sit in the corner" every time I enter Australia. Not sure what lists I'm on.

You're probably too law-abiding to be allowed into the penal colony.

[Euro Cruiser]

Not one accurate answer did I see in my skimming this thread. And since this is a commonly asked Q, including those non-U.S. citizens who are interested in visiting USA waters, perhaps at least a suggestion is in order:

Try to talk with USCG personnel doing LDET boardings. They are all trained up on the actual international treaties that are in force (and which apply to other countries' law enforcement agencies, as well) and they can also explain the real-time process that's used aboard a USCG cutter should an errant ship's captain refuse the boarding. It may take some minutes as comms between the cutter, the regional LDET authority (usually USCG), the U.S. State Dept, and the representative of the country where the vessel is registered. The boardings, in the end, are always approved by the relevant country and are legal (and in compliance with established treaty) even if the ship's operator (or owner) decline the boarding. All countries sign those treaties because they provide a variety of other rights they want all their vessels to have.

Jack

[skipmac]

Hi Jack,

(Have to be careful never to use that greeting at the airport)

Not sure what you mean by Not one accurate answer in the thread. Maybe no one answer with a full and complete discourse on the subject but I thought I saw a lot of correct information.

- You can be boarded offshore.
- US flagged vessels can certainly be boarded
- At least partially this is justified by the Anti Smuggling Act of 1935 (sometimes referred to as the hovering vessels act) http://oceancommission.gov/documents.../smuggling.pdf
- There are treaties with other countries that allow USCG boarding of US flagged vessels in the waters of these other countries or also vessels flagged under that countries laws.

Also, in my experience, the actual members of CG boarding parties are often lower ranks or new guys and have little knowledge of any legal issues behind the LEDET or international law. Usually have to move further up the food chain for that. I should clarify that my only personal boarding experiences were US Customs in FL and Jamaican CG off Mobay, but have plenty of friends with first hand experience and descriptions of USCG boarding (almost always polite and professional but not to be denied).

Certainly some ranting on the thread but not all?

Skip

PS Where near Jax are you? I currently have my 422 anchored up the St John's River.

[s/v Beth]

There were a lot of these issues brought up in a earlier thread. I thought the two most innovative ways to keep from being boarded were:
1. show up at the coast guard axillary at least once every couple of months with donuts and tell them (while they are eating) how much you want to be like them and you wish you were out there. I hear they have actually seen the USCG turn around when you jump up on deck and wave for them to come over.
2. Keep your teenage daughters below decks and well dressed at all times. No swimsuits while the USCG are out. And no sly wink and side looks at them either.

BTW- I have never had any problems. They are always polite and professional to me. And I have seen them take off like a bat out of He!! when there is a sailor in trouble.

[barnakiel]

Any sailing boat in International Waters can be stopped, searched and scuttled by any navy, govt or pirate boat. Her skipper can be then taken to Guantanamo, Jerusalem or Moscow and tortured. The country whose flag was proudly worn by the sailor may, but more often will not, protest.

b.

[pelagical]

I remember seeing boats towed into Port Everglades and agents going on board with crowbars. I wonder who would pay for repairs if they found nothing? Anyone have experience with this?

[Euro Cruiser]

Hi, Skip...

We're berthed at Sadler's on the Ortega River, just S of Jax and before the RR bridge. It's a really nice location for lots of reasons...which is fortunate since we've become 'stuck' there for far longer than we expected.

I've probably talked to 20 LEDET personnel over the last 8 years who do boardings OR who provide the authorizing LEDET presence on USN aircraft who do the searchs in international waters on behalf of USN ships. They all seem to get very well schooled in the how the treaty process works because it's always these folks who have to stooge around in the odd case where a boarding is initially denied. But I'm sure you're correct that this may not be true of all personnel on all LEDET teams. Still, I think it would be very useful for anyone puzzling over this issue - and this is a real sore subject with foreign yachts in international waters, who usually don't experience this anywhere else in the world - to talk with a USCG person who does boardings.

I really don't think U.S. statutes apply here. Foreign flagged vessels in international waters are inviolable except where treaty rights supercede, which is why the State Dept. gets involved on those rare occasions where a boarding is denied. The Coasties want to be sure they have formal, specific confirmation in case they have to use lethal force during the boarding.

Jack

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by pelagical

I remember seeing boats towed into Port Everglades and agents going on board with crowbars. I wonder who would pay for repairs if they found nothing? Anyone have experience with this?

The authorities are not responsible for damage caused in the discharge of their legal duties, so the boat owner pays for any damages.
Too bad - so sad ...

[Blue Stocking]

Gord,

I may be wrong, but didn't the owner of the motor yacht Arc Royal win his claim for damages when the boat was ripped apart, some years ago?