Can I Be Stopped in International Waters ?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

Good reaason to get Cook Island registry. Not much chance of getting boarded by the Cook Island Navy.( nor the Canadian Navy , outside of Canada. I've never heard of it happening.) Does not having a registered boat make you imune form such boardings

If you want the best chance of staying US navy etc free in international water probably better off going for a Russian or Chinese registration

[AK_sailor]

There is no doubt that in the name of "Homeland Security" the US has adopted many excessive, unnecessary, and ultimately counterproductive laws and actions. As a US citizen, I have, and continue to do whatever I can to change that. However, I've also lived long enough, and experienced enough to realize that things are often very complex. I don't care to engage in "sound bite" thinking.

As a case in point, today off the Horn of Africa, the US Navy sank a pirate boat and captured six: The Associated Press: US Navy holds 6 suspected pirates after battle. The Navy is reviewing options of what to do with the pirates, but article notes "Some suspected pirates have been turned over to Kenya for trial, but there has been some reluctance by African nations to become a center for prosecutions. In December, the Dutch government released 13 suspected Somali pirates after the European Union failed to find a country willing to prosecute them."

Most cruising sailors want the freedom to sail without interference, but most also want protection from pirates, thugs, etc. How to balance freedom and security? Most of us also want clean oceans and beaches. How do we enforce environmental regulations on shipping both in international waters, and along our coasts? People who live near major ports want chemicals, LNG, etc protected from deliberate or accidental release. I could go on and on, but my point is, as Jimmy Buffet says "It's simply complicated". On this and other threads I see a lot of bitching, whining, and bravado, but relatively little in the way of constructive thinking.

The USA bashing is also getting a bit tiresome. While we are the biggest kid on the block and hence get most of the attention, many other nations have gone to extremes in the name of anti terrorism. In the UK, for example, apparently the police have the right to execute you on the spot for the crime of boarding a train in the underground (see the case of Mr. Jean Charles de Menezes).

As I said at the beginning, I do what I can to influence my country's policies in a better direction. I suggest you non US citizens might want to put a bit of energy into cleaning up your own acts.

[AK_sailor]

Originally Posted by witzgall

Since the original poster has only posted here once, and has not replied, I can only surmise that he is a troll planted by the USCG to identify deviant sailors. Everyone who responded to this post is being tracked.

Damm, I responded...

Actually, it would appear that the OP has in fact replied quite a few times. FYI, see post #114

Originally Posted by wolfenzee

I started this thread for the purposes of personal infomation.....I have been trying to stir the pot just a bit to see what you guys think.....

Anyway, all sailors are to some extent deviant. If not they would just buy big loud, smelly powerboats!

[delmarrey]

Originally Posted by GordMay

FWIW:
Record(s) for the longest confirmed sniper kill in combat:
Rob Furlong: 2,430 m (2,657 yd), 2005
Brian Kremer: 2,340 m (2,560 yd), 2004
Arron Perry: 2,310 m (2,526 yd), 2005
Carlos Hathcock: 2,286 m (2,500 yd), 1967

Apparently, my resources are out dated or just plain incorrect.

[doug86]

Originally Posted by feelsgood

Well under international law NO BODy can board your vessel without your given permision. That encludes USCG any Navy or police force.

Sure would like to read this international law you refer to. How about providing us with a citation?

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by AK_sailor

... Anyway, all sailors are to some extent deviant. If not they would just buy big loud, smelly powerboats!

As noted by Jim Macbeth, in his 1985 PhD Thesis Dissertation, “Ocean cruising: a study of affirmative deviance”.

“... The thesis concludes that cruisers, as cultural 'heroes', can be seen as affirmative deviants. That is to say, given an humanistic and western individualistic value system their deviance can be seen as contributing to their individual health and growth, and to positive social evolution.”

➥ http://researchrepository.murdoch.ed.../2/01Front.pdf
and
➥ http://wwwlib.murdoch.edu.au/adt/pub...09/02Whole.pdf

[fishwife]

Your research abilities are wonderful Gord. I'm sure you could make a tidy packet as a paid researcher for graduate students

P.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by fishwife

You ... r research abilities are wonderful Gord...
P.

I couldn't agree more.

You might also be interested in reading:
➥ http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...gy-3233-2.html

[Brent Swain]

Originally Posted by AK_sailor

There is no doubt that in the name of "Homeland Security" the US has adopted many excessive, unnecessary, and ultimately counterproductive laws and actions. As a US citizen, I have, and continue to do whatever I can to change that. However, I've also lived long enough, and experienced enough to realize that things are often very complex. I don't care to engage in "sound bite" thinking.

As a case in point, today off the Horn of Africa, the US Navy sank a pirate boat and captured six: The Associated Press: US Navy holds 6 suspected pirates after battle. The Navy is reviewing options of what to do with the pirates, but article notes "Some suspected pirates have been turned over to Kenya for trial, but there has been some reluctance by African nations to become a center for prosecutions. In December, the Dutch government released 13 suspected Somali pirates after the European Union failed to find a country willing to prosecute them."

Most cruising sailors want the freedom to sail without interference, but most also want protection from pirates, thugs, etc. How to balance freedom and security? Most of us also want clean oceans and beaches. How do we enforce environmental regulations on shipping both in international waters, and along our coasts? People who live near major ports want chemicals, LNG, etc protected from deliberate or accidental release. I could go on and on, but my point is, as Jimmy Buffet says "It's simply complicated". On this and other threads I see a lot of bitching, whining, and bravado, but relatively little in the way of constructive thinking.

The USA bashing is also getting a bit tiresome. While we are the biggest kid on the block and hence get most of the attention, many other nations have gone to extremes in the name of anti terrorism. In the UK, for example, apparently the police have the right to execute you on the spot for the crime of boarding a train in the underground (see the case of Mr. Jean Charles de Menezes).

As I said at the beginning, I do what I can to influence my country's policies in a better direction. I suggest you non US citizens might want to put a bit of energy into cleaning up your own acts.

Challenging those who abuse the freedoms of US citizens and others, is not US bashing. It is simply supporting the freedom of USanians and others. Suggesting that it is US bashing ,is implying that all US citizens support the abuses their government imposes on it 's citizens and others.
If you want to criticize the Canadian prime minister and his actions, we Canadians won't consider it Canada Bashing, just support for the 2/3rds of Canadians who voted against him. Feel free to give us such support. We appreciate it.
Some suggested that appeasement is the way to deal effectively with bullies. The British learned the hard way in ww2 that that simply doesn't work . Appeasing bullies simply encourages them to do even more bullying, while empowering them. They simply end up demanding even more appeasement, and surrender of our freedoms.
Of course , it's understandable that an ex bully would advocate appeasement, to make things easier for, and empower further, his colleagues.

[dwightsusan]

Although I long ago chose to "leave it" for life in other countries, I was born in Los Angeles, as was my father and grandfather, I am a US Passport carrying citizen, I pay US taxes, and I maintain informal bases in both the Beehive and the Lone Star States. I am a Vietnam era veteran, and my son is a Navy combat medic serving the Marines in Helmand, Afghanistan.

Although none of these qualifications are required for free speech in the US, they may give me more of a voice when I choose to "bash it", as is the right of every human being.

Although I submit willingly and agreeably, I do not accept that agents of the United States, or of any other government, have the right to interfere with my forward progress as I sail peacefully in international waters. Never did and never will!

Although I submit reluctantly, I do not accept that the US government has the right to look into my private business and correspondence without cause, arguably unconstitutionally, AND without a court order. Nor do I accept that agents of the US government have the right to impede my transit through public airports.

I specifically protest the action of the US government when it launches preemptive military attacks on another sovereign nation without a formal Declaration of War, when it detains citizens of other sovereign nations and holds them without trial on foreign soil, when it engages in rendition, torture, and assassination, when it maintains military facilities on the soil of other sovereign nations, or when it interferes in any manner, militarily, politically, financially, or otherwise in the internal politics of any other sovereign nation.

I believe it is my right as a human being living on this small sphere we all share to speak out whenever I please, and specifically when I identify something I believe to be a wrong which should be addressed.

This is not "bashing the US". This is the basis on which the US was established and the essence of being a loyal citizen.

[osirissail]

As with gun threads and others, the drift has been solidly to the political rather than staying with the OP's original question which addressed - - "can i be stopped in int'l waters."
- - Notice the word "can" that word asks if it is "actually possible" to be stopped - not - "may be stopped" which is a permission-able question. Whether it is "legal" or permissable to be stopped in International waters was not the OP's question. The question was about in "real life" can he be stopped and the answer is simply - yes. And the reasons were more than adequately illuminated by multiple posters.
- - It very similar to the question: if I sail from Madagascar to the Red Sea - can I - expect to be boarded by pirates? I don't think it is permission-able for the pirates to board you but you can certainly expect that you may be boarded. . .

[Van]

Dwightsusan
Just change the words 'US' to 'any nation' and you have my endorsement.

[speakeasy]

Dwightsusan, as a fellow Vietnam vet, I agree with your views on this. I've been quite depressed to see the erosion of civil liberties during the last several decades, starting with the CG being turned into another drug war police outfit in the 80's. I think this quote sums it up succinctly.

"I believe ... that security declines as security machinery expands." ~ E.B. White

[Brent Swain]

"Can I be stopped by any government agent in international waters?" is a political question , by it's very nature. Cruising can be a political action ,by it's very nature . Thus, it is impossible to separate cruising internationally from the politics of doing so.
Denying this is denying free, very relevant debate on the realities of cruising, and cripples the discussion, and the informing of cruisers.

[wolfenzee]

Originally Posted by Brent Swain

Good reaason to get Cook Island registry. Not much chance of getting boarded by the Cook Island Navy.( nor the Canadian Navy , outside of Canada. I've never heard of it happening.) Does not having a registered boat make you imune form such boardings
If my Canadian built boat has Cook Island registry, does that limit how long I can keep her in Canadian waters , being Canadian built?

The limit for keeping a boat foriegn resistry in Canadian waters is one year, doesn't matter where it was biult if the registry is not Canadian. As I am thinking of moving to BC with "permanent resident status" I have checked.