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Old 09-10-2010, 02:47   #1
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Buying UK-Registered Vessel

Ok... I have fallen in love and found the boat I want

Now I just need to work out how to deal with the legalities.

Today I will make a price offer on the boat that is in Greece and is British registered. It of course will be conditional based on a survey and that all the papperwork is correct and the Vat paid status is confirmed.

Assuming it is accepted, what do I do next?

I have spoken to the owner direct about this boat (but was shown the boat by a guy who takes care of it when the owner is away), so I guess there will be no broker involved. It was listed with a Greek broker I had spoken to but he was more interested in selling me other boats.

Are there specialist law firms in the UK who can draw up the contracts and check everything is ok with the legalities and hold the deposit money etc ?

I guess if it is registered with part 1 of the SSR then the dealing with the title is simplified.

Should I join the RYA to use their advice/legal services or should I insist on using a UK registered broker?

Any suggestions are welcome and appreciated
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:56   #2
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anyone got any suggestions on this?

I have now found out that it is part 3 registered on the SRR, so I guess more leg work will be required to prove ownership etc..
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:51   #3
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With a Part III registry I would recommend using the expertise of your own broker to ensure that title is owned by the seller and transferred to you. I'm not an RYA member so don't know what services they offer. In my case the boat was Part I registered, so the title was guaranteed to be clear.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:28   #4
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You seem to be overly complicating things.

You can complete the sale privately, assuming you havent signed any contract with The sellers broker. You can enage your own broker, But Ive never done it.

Firstly there should be bills of sale showing the ownership and any ownership transfer. ( none of these owners should be outside the EU) Secondly there should be an original sales invoice clearly showing VAT ( Thats all you need re VAT).

Lastly you can have the seller sign an indemnity that the boat is theres to sell and that it is free of all emcumbrances. While this doesnt protect you , it does make it easier to sue the seller.

I never see the need for anything more then that

Note Part III SSR is not a proof of ownership nor is there any need to transfer ownership using it. ( Thats part I stuff).

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Old 11-10-2010, 06:34   #5
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You seem to be overly complicating things.

You can complete the sale privately, assuming you havent signed any contract with The sellers broker. You can enage your own broker, But Ive never done it.

Firstly there should be bills of sale showing the ownership and any ownership transfer. ( none of these owners should be outside the EU) Secondly there should be an original sales invoice clearly showing VAT ( Thats all you need re VAT).

Lastly you can have the seller sign an indemnity that the boat is theres to sell and that it is free of all emcumbrances. While this doesnt protect you , it does make it easier to sue the seller.

I never see the need for anything more then that

Note Part III SSR is not a proof of ownership nor is there any need to transfer ownership using it. ( Thats part I stuff).

Dave
+1

Exactly right. In the UK there is no requirement to register a pleasure yacht at all. What a great country!! Part III registry is just a way the MCA came up with to provide a bit of paper to satisfy officious continental bureaucrats, without making British yachtsmen jump through all the hoops of a real registry like Part I.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:46   #6
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Hoppy, do you normally reside in the UK, because if not you could have a problem. Have a read of this and the rest of the MCA website.

UK Ship Register - Fees and Costs

Also the guidance notes:

https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/ssr/ssr/notes.asp

Now as to the sale, since you are dealing in Greece a foreign country to you (and I) best seek advice about transfer of ownership because SSR Part 3 does not prove ownership or title. Read the above notes carefully!

Consider employing a Greek lawyer, although the broker won't want you to.

Pete
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:52   #7
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Consider employing a Greek lawyer, although the broker won't want you to.
overly complex and expensive and gets you nothing, complete a bill of sale and get teh seller to sign an indemnity. That as much protection as you can hope for,

Dave
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:56   #8
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You seem to be overly complicating things.
quite possibly

I guess I am wanting to be a little more cautious as there are 4 countries involved in the process. The boat is in one country, the owner and registration in the 2nd, the former registration and vat payment a 3rd and finally it will eventually end up being registered in the 4th.

Unfortunatly the yacht is 20cm to big to give me the easy registration option here is Sweden, so i will be jumping through hoops here and want to make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed.

It would be a different matter if the seller was using a broker. I have been in contact with a UK broker I have viewed another yacht with, they will get back to me about what they would charge. Then I will decide on which way to go. Paying a little extra to get peace-of-mind and a good sleep is probably a worthwhile thing. Paying a lot extra will be another matter entirely.
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Old 11-10-2010, 07:02   #9
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Hoppy, do you normally reside in the UK, because if not you could have a problem.
I'm in Sweden. The boat will have to be de-registered from the SSR and registered as a "ship" here as it is 20cm to big to be considered a pleasure boat
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Old 11-10-2010, 07:09   #10
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We have our yacht on Part 1 and it shows who owns it, however of the 4 boats I have previously registered on the SSR Part 3 in the past, not once have I had to prove I own it with say a bill of sale during the registration process. So SSR Part 3 should be treated with caution.

Probably the best document to view to see who owns a yacht is the current insurance policy. A thief isn't going to insure a yacht.

So whilst the broker has shown Hoppy a yacht and he is going to pay for a yacht, he needs to be certain that the two are indeed the same yacht.

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Old 11-10-2010, 07:11   #11
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. Paying a little extra to get peace-of-mind and a good sleep is probably a worthwhile thing
Paying money will not buy that as unfortunately there no proof of ownership documents per say. ( And there rarely is for pleasure boats).

Given the size of the boat and the likely costs, this is somewhat outside the norm.

The fact that four countries are involved is irrevelevant once all are in the EU. The fact that the owner is UK and SSR is UK , would I suggest mean that he and you should complete a MCA bill of sale , and you should have a lawyer draw up a simple sale contract that indemnifies you again subsequent claims. ( Uk brokers have a stock one ). SSR can effectively be ignored. ( as its not a real register).

Whatever you do dont involve the greeks. HOWever, do check that the recent greek taxes have been paid ( seek the receipts) as this boat is big enough to fall into that category .( These new taxes are quite large),

Dave
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:16   #12
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The SSR is more or less automatically cancelled on sale as the Holder is required to return it to the Issuers upon change of ownership.
MSA Bill of Sale Form.....
Attached Files
File Type: pdf MSA Bill of Sale.pdf (15.7 KB, 44 views)
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:39   #13
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I would fully endorse in getting a Greek lawyer and i do know of one who i trust fully she does a excellent job she charges 700 euros for all paper work and tax checks , and i would never trust any Greek yacht broker , at the moment the Greek government is checking the status of vat on Yachts owned by Greeks and a lot of these owners are paying the vat and then claiming it back stating the yacht has been exported out
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Old 11-10-2010, 08:55   #14
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I suppose the other possibility is to do a deal with the current owner if he is a UK resident and have him truck the thing back to the UK, or at least Northern France and then sailed over.

Then you are buying a UK registered boat in England from an Englishman whose word is his bond

Its a damn sight closer for you to take home too.

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Old 11-10-2010, 11:44   #15
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If the boat is UK registered, vat is already paid in the EU and none of the parties in the transaction are Greek or reside in Greece, then does Greece have any part of the transaction even if the boat is lying in Greece?
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