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Old 17-04-2011, 22:52   #1
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BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

I'm planning on taking six passengers out on a little harbor sail on a rental boat, teaching them the basics of sailing and letting them have some fun. One of the guys asked if he could bring some beer and I said "sure no problem".

Normally if they're pure passengers it doesn't matter, but if I'm teaching them sailing then it's probable that they're going to be on the helm (even with me as still being the operator).

Just curious if anyone has the fine print on BUI rules and whether that extends to the helm? Seems like it would, but just because you ask a guy to hand you a line doesn't mean he's "involved in the operation of the vessel", which makes me think it's just the single operator who's at fault.
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Old 17-04-2011, 22:55   #2
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

Just some stuff I found (here in California):

Quote:
It is lawful for adult boaters to legally drink or simply have open containers in their vessels as long as the captain or skipper is not .08% or higher (BUI).
Quote:
BUI or drunk boating charges may be reduced to "serving as a crew member while under the influence of intoxicating liquor, any drug, or combined influence." The San Diego California DUI / BUI prosecutor may have difficulty proving the defendant was the operator of a vessel with more than 1 person aboard since it is possible to step away from the controls of a vessel for any time period.
Last one makes me think it's still a crime o be the crew member if you're under the influence.
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Old 17-04-2011, 22:57   #3
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

when they show up with the beer stick it in the cooler and announce that

*this will be really good when we get back to dock this afternoon! We will have worked up a righteous thirst while sailing!*
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Old 17-04-2011, 23:03   #4
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

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Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
when they show up with the beer stick it in the cooler and announce that

*this will be really good when we get back to dock this afternoon! We will have worked up a righteous thirst while sailing!*
It might just be easier if I tell everyone "sorry, no booze on board since you're all going to take turns operating the vessel." None of them have any experience on the water so the last thing I need is drunk people anyway. We'll go to a bar afterwards.
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Old 18-04-2011, 00:31   #5
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

Killjoy! In the UK we have drink drive laws that amount to about 2 cans of beer before driving. And if the weather is fair, why not allow your students to relax with a beer or two. Be sure to insist they bring along plenty of bread, cheese and chocolate to line everyone's stomachs, and you could be onto a winner!
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Old 18-04-2011, 00:36   #6
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
Just some stuff I found (here in California):





Last one makes me think it's still a crime o be the crew member if you're under the influence.
From what you posted, the operator (and crew) is allowed to drink, just not be over 0.08%. That's supposed to be about 3 or 4 drinks within an hour? When crew has brought drinks I ask them to not get drunk until we're done. They've managed to have one or two beers and call it good while we're out sailing. I guess if I thought my crew was incapable of limiting themselves I would ask them not to bring anything.

One thing I learned about California from the Clear Lake case is that you can be charged with being over 0.08% and separately charged with being intoxicated. The impression I got of this is if you act drunk you can be charged as drunk.

Based on my behavior 20 or more years ago I could be called an incredable hypocrite. Times have changed, laws have changed.

John
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Old 18-04-2011, 08:46   #7
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

BUI will be charged against the helmsman if over .08%

Public Intoxication charged against the rest if deemed drunk.
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Old 18-04-2011, 09:43   #8
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

11/29/07 | abc7news.com

because if there is a problem it gets very complicated legally....
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Old 18-04-2011, 13:57   #9
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

Think Clear Lake Ca., and avoid the possible hassles........i2f
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Old 18-04-2011, 14:07   #10
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
11/29/07 | abc7news.com

because if there is a problem it gets very complicated legally....
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagine2frolic View Post
Think Clear Lake Ca., and avoid the possible hassles........i2f
Well everyone on the sailboat tested over the legal limit. Shouldn't be an issue if you don't drink too much. But maybe I'm missing the point, so far the OP and 2 other posts seem to indicate there are only two possibilities, complete abstinance, or drunk.

John
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Old 18-04-2011, 14:48   #11
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
It might just be easier if I tell everyone "sorry, no booze on board since you're all going to take turns operating the vessel." None of them have any experience on the water so the last thing I need is drunk people anyway. We'll go to a bar afterwards.
That is the path of least resistance, but the "no beer until docking" aspect would work, too.

My instincts and experience tell me that if this is a commercial transaction, your own butt is covered better if no beer comes over the toerail while the teachable moments are occurring.

Even when we are sailing on hot days, I will rarely crack a single beer or cider when off the dock because I do not want any questions about my mental state should something go wrong. I'm crazy enough stone cold sober as it is.
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Old 18-04-2011, 14:51   #12
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

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Originally Posted by cal40john View Post
Well everyone on the sailboat tested over the legal limit. Shouldn't be an issue if you don't drink too much. But maybe I'm missing the point, so far the OP and 2 other posts seem to indicate there are only two possibilities, complete abstinance, or drunk.

John
Common sense is far more subtle than tort law. Recall that the OP is posting from the country that insisted purchasers of coffee had to be reminded in writing on the lids that "warning...coffee may be hot".

If there is an Angstrom unit of space between litigation and personal responsibility, an American lawyer will find it.
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Old 19-04-2011, 06:19   #13
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

If you are indeed teaching them the basics of sailing, I would suggest you start by telling that boats, the sea, and alcohol don't mix.
As an ambulance driver told me once, if it weren't for alcohol and stupidity, I wouldn't have a job.
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Old 19-04-2011, 12:52   #14
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

Once again ...a great debate between common sense and the law.

I teach responsibility...whether drinking or not.

Complete abstinance is often suggested because so many can't control themselves....such a pity.

if a person can't have a couple beers over several hours and enjoy a day of sailing...then maybe they shouldn't boat at all...as emergencies can happen that tax even experts.

Boat US once published a study of alcohol and boating that essentially proved most people shouldn't operate a boat even sober and some that can drink quite a bit and boat just fine.

You are never going to be wrong legally by not allowing alcohol consumption while operating equipment....it's just a shame that much of our world has lost the definition of responsibility.
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Old 19-04-2011, 13:01   #15
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Re: BUI: It's anyone operating the vessel right?

Bacchus has always killed more than Neptune.
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