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Old 23-10-2015, 09:19   #106
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by Breezer View Post
Hello everyone!

I've got a serious issue going on..
I am from Portugal and I've got a boat registered under the Belgium Flag.

Two weeks ago I was tying of on my spot at the local marina here on the island and I was "inspected" by the local Polícia Marítima (I believe it is similar to the Coast Guard - USCG).
8
According to the Belgium Flag certificate I am not obligated to have a driving permit for sea and I can only be boarded and inspected by Belgium authorities and the local Customs.
Also, according to Belgium Flag rules I also not obligated to show any other documents nor security equipment to the local authorities here in Portugal.

It happens that they asked me for several documents including the Boat's registry, insurance, "lighthouse tax" and fishing license and I obliged!

After that the officer asked me to show him my security equipment, fire extinguisher, flares, life vests to which I replied, I am on a boat running the Belgium Flag and that he had no authority to ask me for any of those items.

The officer kept insisting that I had to show him the equipment and my driving permit to which I answered: "I do have them stored in the cabin but you Sir, you do not have authority in that matter thus I will not show you that." because he is not even authorized to ask me for those things according to the Belgium Flag in the first place.

After he was done, he told me I was going to receive a ticket notice.

It so happens that on Friday I received the ticket notice and, in sum, it is saying that I failed to provide a driving permit and that I did not have the security equipment on board.
Also there was something saying that as the total ticket price is an abstract amount I was not able to pay the ticket voluntarily and had 20 days to counter the accusations.


Has anyone here experienced this in their home waters?
I will have to write a counter letter to defend myself and I really need the exact laws so I can juice up the letter by giving valid laws instead of what is just written on the Pavillon Belge website where I registered the boat at...

Tomorrow I will try to get in contact with the office that I have the boat registered at but my french is somewhat spotty..

I'm sorry for the long thread but I really need help with this..

Thank you all in advance!
Stay safe on the water!

Vando S.
Usually, when you enter a country carrying a foreign flag, you get an exemption time after which you are required to follow the rules of the country you entered.
And, from the moment you have entered, even before any exemption time passed, the host country has a right to inspect your vessel.
So basically they were right and you have acted stupidly.
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Old 23-10-2015, 09:28   #107
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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I have Flemish friends and they don't feel at all like Dutch (they use to joke about Dutch and probably that is reciprocal regarding Dutch versus Flemish).
I'm a Fleming (a real one as I was born in Brugge), and I've lived in the Netherlands. So I do know a bit about that :-)
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Old 23-10-2015, 09:30   #108
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by Zven View Post
But what if something takes place in a boat, which is considered a crime where the boat is docked but not where it is registered?
Say, smoking pot, or a gay relationship, for example.

And then there is the opposite: Acts considered illegal by the flag state but accepable where one is docked...?
Again, a flag gives a boat a nationality, but does not turn it in to a part of a foreign country. You have to follow local laws. Even where they are silly (like not being allowed to drink beer unless you have a head...)
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Old 23-10-2015, 09:31   #109
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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But nobody does that and as I said any official license from another country will not normally raise any problems, even if not an EU one.
Which is basically why at one time an official from the Belgium government suggested that I just fake a license...
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Old 23-10-2015, 10:08   #110
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Which is basically why at one time an official from the Belgium government suggested that I just fake a license...
LOL, that coming from a government official is as bad as it could be!!! Of course, if by any chance that was discovered you would end up not only with a fine but probably in jail.

Authorities can be quite thorough particularly if they get suspicious: they hate smart asses.

And not being one, I mean smart last year on Italy a maritime police went suspicious about my license I guess because it said "unlimited" or something like that and because I was sailing an Italian flagged boat with a Portuguese license he put on his head that I would had to have an Italian one.

It took almost a day to have my license back and I bet the guy made everything in his power to see if the license was genuine and I I really could sail an Italian boat with a Portuguese license.

Regarding European countries and police it really does not take much time to found out if a license is fake or not if a police really wants to find out.
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Old 23-10-2015, 10:19   #111
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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I'm a Fleming (a real one as I was born in Brugge), and I've lived in the Netherlands. So I do know a bit about that :-)
You should be more proud about that (I thought you were Belge ) not only you have born on a very beautiful city with a great history as the Flemish have the best beer and BD in the world.

The beer I can drink it (and I do) but the BD I cannot read and it breaks my heart to see all those beautiful books at fantastic prices and not being able to read them!!!
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Old 23-10-2015, 15:22   #112
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Not as simple as that I mean regarding Netherlands and Belgium you may be right but not in what regards Holland and Flanders (where the Flemish live). Holland is at the heart of modern Netherlands as a political state.

I have Flemish friends and they don't feel at all like Dutch (they use to joke about Dutch and probably that is reciprocal regarding Dutch versus Flemish).

Dutch and Flemish have different religions (Protestants and Catholics) and only that is important in what regards a cultural difference since a religion is much more than a spiritual thing but shapes most of the moral and many social rules and values.

Politically they had also have been separated and not only in 1830: From 1581 to 1714 it was a Spanish territory (while Holland was independent and a sea powerful state) and before they had also separated political histories:

Flanders:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders
Holland:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland
You realize that Catholicism and Protestism is the same 'religion'?
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Old 23-10-2015, 16:50   #113
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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You realize that Catholicism and Protestism is the same 'religion'?
Yes sure, that's why they had killed themselves by the tens of thousands in wars that have different views of the same religions as one of the causes. It still happens in Ireland with catholics on the republic of Ireland versus North Ireland protestants and in what regards Islamism with Shia and Sunni killing themselves on the last thousand of years.

Maybe you just don't know European history, maybe you did not understood what I was meaning with two different religions (even if formally they are two of the many branches of the same religion) and the historic effects that it had regarding antagonism on neighbours that share a lot on their culture...except their "religion".
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Old 23-10-2015, 18:53   #114
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by Zven View Post
But what if something takes place in a boat, which is considered a crime where the boat is docked but not where it is registered?
Say, smoking pot, or a gay relationship, for example.

Mind you fingers... Clang!

And then there is the opposite: Acts considered illegal by the flag state but accepable where one is docked...?

If the flag state find outs and gets you back in their jurisdiction... Mind you fingers...Clang!

Flag registry different to location does not exempt you from liability for criminal actions, it makes you liable under multiple jurisdictions simultaneously.
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Old 23-10-2015, 19:56   #115
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Yes sure, that's why they had killed themselves by the tens of thousands in wars that have different views of the same religions as one of the causes. It still happens in Ireland with catholics on the republic of Ireland versus North Ireland protestants and in what regards Islamism with Shia and Sunni killing themselves on the last thousand of years.

Maybe you just don't know European history, maybe you did not understood what I was meaning with two different religions (even if formally they are two of the many branches of the same religion) and the historic effects that it had regarding antagonism on neighbours that share a lot on their culture...except their "religion".
ok, I think you recognise they are the same religion when you acknowledged the 'formal' bit.
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Old 23-10-2015, 21:09   #116
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

you'd have to look a bit further to find a religion that does not worship the same god, as Christianity and Islam all derive from Judaism which shows some fascinating parallerels to the ancient Egyptian Akhenaten.
so formaly, they are all the same? ,)
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Old 23-10-2015, 21:35   #117
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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you'd have to look a bit further to find a religion that does not worship the same god, as Christianity and Islam all derive from Judaism which shows some fascinating parallerels to the ancient Egyptian Akhenaten.
so formaly, they are all the same? ,)
If you want to be 'formal' then Christianity flows from Hebrewism and not jewdaism. But that's a theological argument which has no boats in it. So let's get back to sailing
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Old 23-10-2015, 21:46   #118
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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If you want to be 'formal' then Christianity flows from Hebrewism and not jewdaism. But that's a theological argument which has no boats in it. So let's get back to sailing
But the Ark is a common story so it does have have at least one boat in it.
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Old 23-10-2015, 21:48   #119
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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But the Ark is a common story so it does have have at least one boat in it.
Stu , your not helping
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Old 23-10-2015, 22:24   #120
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

and i was about to cut the ark and bring out Thor Heyerdahl's Ra II....
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