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Old 21-10-2015, 09:23   #31
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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According to the Belgium Flag certificate I am not obligated to have a driving permit for sea
You can really drive a boat with 225HP without a license in Belgium?

Carsten
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Old 21-10-2015, 09:26   #32
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by pabraam View Post
Tss tss tss: In Belgium Flemish, Dutch in the Netherlands (NOT Holland, which is a part of the Netherlands...!)
Actually the official languages in Belgium are Dutch, French and German. Flemish is just a dialect. One of many...
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Old 21-10-2015, 09:35   #33
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by CarstenWL View Post
You can really drive a boat with 225HP without a license in Belgium?
At sea yes, you don't need any licence whatsoever for a pleasure craft. I for a long time just carried a letter from my government stating that I didn't need a boating licence to show abroad whenever some port captain wanted to see my licence...
I now have an ICC, which I just got by signing a form.
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:00   #34
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

There is some info on foreign-flaged boats in Portugal here:

Safety Standards - Lagos Navigators - Lagos Navigators
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:00   #35
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

... thanks ...

But than: Can a 'flag state' really override rules valid for the captain of a vessel (being of different nationality)?

Saying, I as a German need a license if the boat has more than 15PS if I want to move the boat on the water ways for seagoing vessels and on the coastal waters.

Belgium seems to be fine to allow this without license but can Belgium (the flag state) really say than you need it nowhere?

So I as a German can move a boat with more than 15PS without license in German waters if I have the boat registered in Belgium?

Carsten
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:19   #36
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pirate Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

Your Portuguese in Portuguese waters.. you have to comply with their/your laws..
The Belgian flag trick is just to get round the annual inspection by the Policia Maritimo and complex registration process that exists in Portugal.
Its like a US/OZ citizen registering in Belgium and expecting to be free of the 90 days limit coz his boats EU flagged.. aint gonna happen..
The Azores is a law unto itself anyway.. get towed in.. you cannot leave again until the vessel has been inspected by a Navy engineer and pronounced seaworthy..
An Irish couple were stopped from sailing further in Portimao because he had no certificates.. so don't push your luck.. its not worth it..
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:22   #37
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by CarstenWL View Post
... thanks ...

But than: Can a 'flag state' really override rules valid for the captain of a vessel (being of different nationality)?

Saying, I as a German need a license if the boat has more than 15PS if I want to move the boat on the water ways for seagoing vessels and on the coastal waters.

Belgium seems to be fine to allow this without license but can Belgium (the flag state) really say than you need it nowhere?

So I as a German can move a boat with more than 15PS without license in German waters if I have the boat registered in Belgium?

Carsten
I understood the OP to be saying that there is some sort of EU rule that supports him, an attempt to make boating across the EU easier. Whether there is such a rule, and whether it applies as broadly as the OP thinks, I have no idea.

He lost my sympathy when he allowed his flares "might" be out-of-date. I would not expect the USCG to accept an argument that flares are not needed if the boat is in cell phone range.
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:26   #38
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

So not a Dutch flag but a Belgian one on your boat Breezer!
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:45   #39
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

Here is the bottom line.... You are in this mess because you have been dancing around the laws and regulations. You freely admit that this is your bad because the reason you refused to let the inspector see some of your equipment is because it is (hopefully now "was") out of date. Either pay for an attorney and continue to play the "My lawyer is smarter than the Government lawyer" game or make sure your safety equipment is all up to date and give them your best "Golly gee wiz I was having a bad day" while kicking a pebble and invite them back for an other unimpeded inspection.
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:47   #40
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

my policy when dealing with cops anywhere in any guise is follow all instructions at the time then take it up with higher authorities or a lawyer when I have time and if I feel so inclined.

so far I haven't felt inclined.
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Old 21-10-2015, 10:48   #41
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by pabraam View Post
Tss tss tss: In Belgium Flemish, Dutch in the Netherlands (NOT Holland, which is a part of the Netherlands...!)
Well except when I asked my Dutch friends the distinction they just said it's about the same, don't worry about it. However, my understanding is calling the country Holland is like calling the UK, England. The guys from Wales, Northern Ireland or Scotland seem to object for some reason.

Yes I know, Flemish in Koninkrijk België and Dutch in Nederland but I recall a meeting with three friends, one Belgian, one Dutch and one Afrikaner. They seemed to communicate quite well in the common language even though one called it Flemish, one called it Dutch and the other called it Afrikaans. Of course it was all Greek to me.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:02   #42
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

Be careful of what you ask for; and yes you truly asked for it. You have probably spent more time just typing your post then it would have taken to show them your flares. Enjoy your day.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:09   #43
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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The reason means nothing to the Portuguese authorities, they do not care what reason.

At this point you can try to fight it legally and probably pay a lot of money or go back to the local authorities, apologize and try to fix the situation.

Good luck.
Skipmac has some EXTREMELY wise words of advice here and I would try to follow them if at all possible even if you have to grumble about them for a few years afterwards.

I was shaken down for bribes a few times in my life, I just consider it the cost of living an interesting life and am thankful that I am not morally and spiritually in the same situation the extorter was.
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Old 21-10-2015, 11:51   #44
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

Well having spent
40 yrs in Law Enforcement here in the States, I just waited for someone to say "You can't do that" oops on thier part. Also, although I have no personal experience there, you would be stuck in New Zealand for a long time if you didn't meet all thier exit requirements for equipment no matter what your country required. That's a well documented fact..
Ted.
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Old 21-10-2015, 12:00   #45
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Re: Boat with Dutch Flag I got a ticket notice in Portugal

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Originally Posted by tbodine88 View Post
my policy when dealing with cops anywhere in any guise is follow all instructions at the time then take it up with higher authorities or a lawyer when I have time and if I feel so inclined.
Very good advice. Trying to argue legalities on the spot when dealing with any type of authority is the worst possible thing to do. You resist then the authorities have the ability to escalate the situation as much as they like. It will almost never turn out well for the individual.

If you think your rights were violated and want to argue the point then do so later.
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