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Old 17-02-2012, 08:56   #46
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Avoid so called professional advice. Unless the person has serious credentials in boat VAT and is specific to a country in question. Otherwise you get nonsense.

Dave
Whilst you are in many respects right .....with large numbers involved, especially dealing abroad (unfamiliar territory) and with a known potential downside ($$$) from getting things wrong - I would personally start from the position that Professional Advice should be obtained from someone with a Proffesional Qualification (Lawyer / Accountant - and in this case who specialises in Tax / VAT / Boat matters, rather than simply counting beans etc for the local mom and pop store)...........and IMO ideally a firm of more than one man and a dog / website .........and has experiance of the envisaged transaction (no point paying for someone else's learning curve - it happens!).....unless (until?) I get to the point of being comfortable without the paid for Proffesional Advice - as you suggest, paying for advice can be worthless......but put some effort into picking an advisor carefully (and being willing to put hand into pocket accordingly) and it doesn't have to be.

My previous comments were on the assumption that the folk concerned would not be paying for the first firm they simply Googled up.

But, as always, nothing in life guaranteed - albeit you generally do get out what you put in - whether cash and a bit noggin. or solely noggin.
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Old 17-02-2012, 09:20   #47
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My advice wasnt about professional services in general. But to get specific reliable information you need VAt advisors that understand the specific VAT law associated with boats ( new means of transport )

Then you have to filter the received knowledge because sometimes its impossible to stay within the letter of the VAT law. Equally do you really want a professional opinion on file if you do transgress.

Yes by all means fire away , but it can bring as much confusion as it seems to solve. Even normal business VAt issues can be a struggle to resolve.

Then add the language barrier, etc

Dave
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Old 17-02-2012, 09:37   #48
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

Depends entirely on the country of origin and who had owned the boat and if the boat is new or 2nd hand. A company can or may keep a boat for business reasons outside the VAT. As soon as it is sold - f.e. a rental that is sold to a private person - the countries VAT becomes applicable. The percentage is per country different. Luxemburg is as far as I know the lowest in the EU.
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Old 17-02-2012, 14:47   #49
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

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Depends entirely on the country of origin and who had owned the boat and if the boat is new or 2nd hand. A company can or may keep a boat for business reasons outside the VAT. As soon as it is sold - f.e. a rental that is sold to a private person - the countries VAT becomes applicable. The percentage is per country different. Luxemburg is as far as I know the lowest in the EU.

I want to deal with this, firstly in relation to a European corporation.

Firslty using a corporate asset for private use , is subject to benefit in kind taxes

Secondly as a boat is above the VAT threshold, the business must be VAT registered, hence 2 months returns, Then there is the issue of "self supply" i.e. you must charge yourself Vat for its use.

Thirdly you cannot runs loss making company forever as you run foul of various laws relating to reckless trading , etc.

Secondly as you are VAT registered Vat has to be charged on a sale within the EU unless the buyer is VAT registered. This is irrespective of how the boat got into the company in the first place.

Like I said unless you are a legitimate company, like sail training, or charter ( loads of laws here), then forget it. Its the first dodge customs look for.

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Old 30-08-2012, 16:01   #50
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

Does anyone know if an offshore company in one of the British oversea territories (such as BVI, Anguilla, CY etc) can use Part 1 UK registry ?
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Old 30-08-2012, 17:42   #51
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

Yes, but you will need a UK address.
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Old 30-08-2012, 18:57   #52
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

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Yes, but you will need a UK address.
Thanks - looks Jersey has a better solution.
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Old 30-08-2012, 19:19   #53
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

Dear oh dear, I'm getting dizzy from all this thread swapping.

Jersey has professional addressees but they come at a price. They will probably work for you about 1 hour a year for ? ? ? Is it a good deal ?

Dunno
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Old 31-08-2012, 05:24   #54
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

Can anyone explain how the boat gets "into" a UK Ltd (sorry might sound extremely dumb ... :-)

Can I buy the boat before the Ltd is formed and "give" it to the company or does the company have to buy the boat from the previous owner ?

If the UK Ltd buys the boat from a German owner (Germany VAT paid), is the "VAT paid" status still valid ?
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Old 31-08-2012, 05:35   #55
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

Yes it is, they are all part of the same EU mechanism. You can register the boat in Gibraltar, all you need to do is set up a business address there, easier than the UK mainland.
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Old 31-08-2012, 05:40   #56
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

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Yes it is, they are all part of the same EU mechanism. You can register the boat in Gibraltar, all you need to do is set up a business address there, easier than the UK mainland.
business address = offshore company ?

Looks to me Gibraltar company (formation/maintenance) costs a >lot< more then in UK.

Unless you have a good contact ... :-)


PS : and I want to keep the VAT paid status !
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Old 31-08-2012, 18:26   #57
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

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I want to deal with this, firstly in relation to a European corporation.

Firslty using a corporate asset for private use , is subject to benefit in kind taxes
Funny - why would folks own a boat or a summer cottage or etc via a Ltd ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Secondly as a boat is above the VAT threshold, the business must be VAT registered, hence 2 months returns, Then there is the issue of "self supply" i.e. you must charge yourself Vat for its use.
Isn't the VAT threshold in UK £ 70'000 / year ? ... :-) ... otherwise not VAT registration required.

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Thirdly you cannot runs loss making company forever as you run foul of various laws relating to reckless trading , etc.

...

Like I said unless you are a legitimate company, like sail training, or charter ( loads of laws here), then forget it. Its the first dodge customs look for.

Dave
Just had a chat with an UK guy - it's very possible. If the maintenance cost is transferred to the "customer", then there are no bills therefore no loss -> can be even a "dormant account"

Further it is pretty common here in Europe to own an asset via a company and "privately" use it. It's all about limiting liability or profiting from tax loopholes. Also look closer to Part 1 registry (it's very contrary to what you are stating ... and I suppose the UK gov is not proposing illegal stuff ... :-) :

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...raft/DG_180524

Company-owned boats

A company-owned boat is considered a pleasure craft if, at the time of its journey, it's on a free voyage or excursion and used by:
  • employees of the company
  • officers of the company
  • immediate friends and family of employees or officers
A pleasure craft can also be owned on behalf of a members’ club, as long as:
  • the boat is used only by members of the club and their immediate families
  • the boat is only used for sport or leisure purposes
  • any fees are paid into club funds for the general use of the club
  • no other payments are made by the users of the boat


==> Bottom line : Always provide a link to support your statements !
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Old 31-08-2012, 18:39   #58
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

There is no link
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Old 31-08-2012, 22:43   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonker
Can anyone explain how the boat gets "into" a UK Ltd (sorry might sound extremely dumb ... :-)

Can I buy the boat before the Ltd is formed and "give" it to the company or does the company have to buy the boat from the previous owner ?

If the UK Ltd buys the boat from a German owner (Germany VAT paid), is the "VAT paid" status still valid ?
I won't do links because like this this one you gave
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAn...raft/DG_180524

It provides a partial and incomplete picture and is wrongly interpreted, the link you reference is about the difference between what is a leisure vessel and what is regarded as a commercial craft. The subject is large and best addressed in a specific circumstance with a tax practitioner.

The VAT threshold is 77k. If the boat purchase is over that then there may be a need to vat register.

Bik on the use of company assets ( including accommodation, including your " holiday home" example ) applies to directors irrespective of income threshold , various tables from revenue show the effect and charge back. For example of you wrap up a holiday home in a company and you as a director then take holidays in it , them you are receiving benefit from a company asset and charge backs to you apply.

" giving" the assst to the company involves a sale for in effect no concern. The company must value the asset on its balance sheet , an asset of considerable worth acquired for zero concern can give rise to significant capital gain and hence taxes.

If the company buys the boat from the PO , the vat threshold may be exceeded. Hence , it has been argued that vat must be charged on any subsequent sale. Hence vat is due again ( vat is not an asset status, even though the term is used, vat is a transaction tax )

The company could be lent the money to buy the asset the via a directors loan , see the various provisions re this.

I have had it questioned that a boat could for, the basis of a dormant company. and still be regularly used.

Nor do I except that many normal sized sub 150k yachts are wrapped up in company's in Europe. I'm was in this game and in my experience it's rare to find one that was done legally. Many people had done it but relied on mis declaration or false returns to allow it to take place.

Wrapping up a leisure yacht in a uk company merely to claim uk registration is nuts. Find a uk accommodation address and use the SSR instead.

Don't listen to me, get expect advice , from a good auditor then come back here and see it it makes sense.

Dave
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:39   #60
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Re: Boat Registration in UK

Ok ... "benefits-of-kind" that could really be an issue. So the boat could be a part of total asset of a company but as a sole asset, there might really be an issue.

Dave - thanks for the input.
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