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Anonymous7500 · 25-10-2012, 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

From Hampsted NC to Lake Norman NC there would be no Gov. scales. After the boat was on the trailer there was nowhere to off load It .. takes about 4 hrs to drive this distance...the boat went cross country on another trailer from what Don told me..

There are certified CAT scales in Rocky Point...11 miles from Hampstead.

Christerart · 25-10-2012, 10:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous7500

There are certified CAT scales in Rocky Point...11 miles from Hampstead.

Last nail in the coffin me thinks...

JayCall · 25-10-2012, 10:22

Trop-you might want to begin taking what the trucker tells you with a grain of salt. There are several things you have described as having been told that make no sense. First-he said he talked to a FBI agent and the agent told him all was ok? And he gave you the agent's name? How did the FBI get involved? Did he just call the FBI and ask for an opinion? Sorry, the FBI is not in the opinion business and they are not into state law issues regarding conversion/theft/contract breach and they certainly do not offer legal opinions to anyone who asks. The FBI would only respond to a complaint from the OP, and they certainly would communicate with him, not the subject of an ivestigation is such an investigation were undertaken.

Second, the trucker went to the USCG to get a lien? and the CG had the Marshals arrest the boat? Sorry, it does not happen that way. The CG does no issues "liens". It only records them in the Registry and then oly for documented vesses. If you want to "Arrest" a boat, you have a lawyer go into Federal Court, make a showing of money owed and the basis for the debt, the federal judge issues a "detainer" and instructs the Marshall's Service to "arrest" the boat. You have to make a showing of having tried to contact the debtor and, once the order is issued, it is served on the debtor and a hearing date set, normally in a failry short period of time. The point of all this is that boats, "in the waterr" are movable.

If the trucker had indeed correctly "arrested" the boat, the process would not be for him to call the trucker and arrange payment to get his boat back. The process would be that the OP would have been served notice of the court's action, given a date to appear to challenge the detainer and the court would decide. All of this is public record. I did a quick search in the federal district courts, and no such action by either Steadley or Big Dog is pending in any of the federal district courts.

So, in short, none of what Steadley has told you bears much relationship to any reality of process. If you speak to him again, I would suggest that you question him alot more closely. You should ask him for the name and # of his attorney and share that with the OP via a PM so the OP can contact him to resolve the matter.

It seems to me, that if you are aware of the location of either Steadley or the boat, there is at least a moral obligation to provide that information to the OP to allow him to recover his boat and resolve any issues with Steadley. From Steadley's actions, and statements to you, it appears that the only resolution he will accept, and is taking actions to achieve, is to have the OP pay him what he asks. It certainly appears that he does not want, nor is he willing, to have any third party determine the validity of his claims for payment.

Dsanduril · 25-10-2012, 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Moving companies are regularly holding peoples goods hostage for more money. They conveniently give a price that is called an "estimate" then want a lot more when the goods arrive.

This is so common that there is an entirely separate section of federal code dealing solely with interstate transport of household goods; 49CFR Part 375. Doesn't do our OP/Dansante85 any good, but there is some good language there that could be incorporated in other's boat moving contracts:

Quote:

§ 375.513 Must I give the individual shipper an opportunity to observe the weighing?

You must give the individual shipper or any other person responsible for the payment of the freight charges the right to observe all weighings of the shipment. You must advise the individual shipper, or any other person entitled to observe the weighings, where and when each weighing will occur. You must give the person who will observe the weighings a reasonable opportunity to be present to observe the weighings.

and:

Quote:

§ 375.519 Must I obtain weight tickets?

(a) You must obtain weight tickets whenever we require you to weigh the shipment in accordance with this subpart. You must obtain a separate weight ticket for each weighing. The weigh master must sign each weight ticket.

Each weight ticket must contain the following six items:
(1) The complete name and location of the scale.
(2) The date of each weighing.
(3) The identification of the weight entries as being the tare, gross, or net weights.
(4) The company or carrier identification of the vehicle.
(5) The last name of the individual shipper as it appears on the bill of lading.
(6) The carrier's shipment registration or bill of lading number.
(b) When both weighings are performed on the same scale, one weight ticket may be used to record both weighings.
(c) As part of the file on the shipment, you must retain the original weight ticket or tickets relating to the determination of the weight of a shipment.
(d) All freight bills you present to an individual shipper must include true copies of all weight tickets obtained in the determination of the shipment weight in order to collect any shipment charges dependent upon the weight transported.

I think this is pretty standard in the shipping business, but I can't (quickly) find reference in other than the household moving regulations.

**skipmac** · 25-10-2012, 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

,wheather it is moral or a gray area be damned,the fact remains he gave the boat to the driver to haul with very little in the way of a good contract to protect himself with....

Well perhaps the OP was naive, too trusting, foolish or whatever, but you are saying that because he didn't have a formal, bulletproof, detailed contract that this whole thing is the boat owners fault? So the only way to insure the trucker will honor his word is to get a lawyer to draw up a contract and have it signed and notarized?

Maybe I'm just as naive but in my business I make much bigger deals with a phone call. Yes it will be followed up with a written agreement confirming price, specs, etc to make sure there is clear understanding between the parties on the details but anyone not honoring any agreement written, verbal, email or otherwise, word gets around pretty quickly and he or she doesn't get too many return phone calls in the future.

Your word is your word, a deal is a deal and if one party requires a formal contract to honor a deal, then the agreement isn't worth much anyway. Unless you're talking six figures, even with a contract it will cost you more to sue and recover than the value of the deal.

**skipmac** · 25-10-2012, 10:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anonymous7500

There are certified CAT scales in Rocky Point...11 miles from Hampstead.

Also other scales on the route. Don't know Lake Norman NC but google maps shows the route goes through Charlotte. There are several certified public scales in the Charlotte area as well.

No excuse for the driver to not have a weight ticket.

tropicalescape · 25-10-2012, 11:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christerart

All this is no defense whatsoever for a commercial professional trucker (or trucking company).

I keep wondering why you are doing this guy's "defense" - on a public site where all your (and presumedly the truckers) comments (and defense) might be used in a trial.

Very strange - but it fits with all the actions (as reported) by the trucker (and you).

The fact remains - his actions so far are very far removed from how a responsible and professional trucker would have handled this situation. It continues to paint the picture of a person who's broke and is trying to squeeze money from an elderly client - and as reported by other clients have not performed his contracts with them either.

This whole weight issue I am quite sure is BS.

What got me about the whole thing was that some were and still are saying that a crime has been commited! I dont know anyone in this agreement or have any connection to them ....I was amazed at how people could take one side of a story and run with it to the point of "lets all find this guy and lynch him for pissing off one of our cruser forum members"! Then when I made the simple statement about no crime having being commited some here "attacked" me as having no morals or bad business ethics and that is very ,very, far from the truth! You and others talk about a "trial"! Why would anyone want this to go to trial? do you like going to court ? Spending money and time dealing with lawyers? I guess its easy to sit back and tell others that the first thing to do is call a lawer when its not your money...This is a civil matter and people KEEP talking about theft ,conversion of property,the trial ,the lawyers, The police,the DA, I guess I am hyper sensative about the fact that some would keep talking about crimes being commited when it is a civil matter! I think it is odd that very few have said that these people should get together and talk before it gets to the point of going to "trial" (Sabrey)... I deal with people all the time that think they want to learn to hanglide and when I get everything ready to go like loading the equitment,fueling up the van,making deals involving group pricing etc they decide that they have changed their minds and dont want ,or worse yet, "Dont feel" like they should pay anything because they didnt go to the field and fly.....I have spent my time and sometime if I really felt comfortable with the person my money before getting a deposit or full payment only to be let down when they "change their minds",so yes when it comes to protecting the small business owner I lean toward the right.... Right is right ,wrong is wrong, I dont know who is right and who is wrong in this fight and at this time dont really care, the only point I was concerned with making was that this truck driver could not be charged by law enforcement for stealing the mans boat because as far as anyone on CF knew it was a job that was hired out to the truck driver,not a highjacking,not a theft ,I guess I expected everyone to "blindly dedicate themselves" to what I was saying(because it is true) If anyone else has a ? for the truck driver call him ,dont ask me ,i am not his agent,I am just someone who knew that no crime was commited after reading what the boat owner wrote in his first post on here and with only one side of the story...

Christerart · 25-10-2012, 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

What got me about the whole thing was that some were and still are saying that a crime has been commited! I dont know anyone in this agreement or have any connection to them ....I was amazed at how people could take one side of a story and run with it to the point of "lets all find this guy and lynch him for pissing off one of our cruser forum members"! Then when I made the simple statement about no crime having being commited some here "attacked" me as having no morals or bad business ethics and that is very ,very, far from the truth! You and others talk about a "trial"! Why would anyone want this to go to trial? do you like going to court ? Spending money and time dealing with lawyers? I guess its easy to sit back and tell others that the first thing to do is call a lawer when its not your money...This is a civil matter and people KEEP talking about theft ,conversion of property,the trial ,the lawyers, The police,the DA, I guess I am hyper sensative about the fact that some would keep talking about crimes being commited when it is a civil matter! I think it is odd that very few have said that these people should get together and talk before it gets to the point of going to "trial" (Sabrey)... I deal with people all the time that think they want to learn to hanglide and when I get everything ready to go like loading the equitment,fueling up the van,making deals involving group pricing etc they decide that they have changed their minds and dont want ,or worse yet, "Dont feel" like they should pay anything because they didnt go to the field and fly.....I have spent my time and sometime if I really felt comfortable with the person my money before getting a deposit or full payment only to be let down when they "change their minds",so yes when it comes to protecting the small business owner I lean toward the right.... Right is right ,wrong is wrong, I dont know who is right and who is wrong in this fight and at this time dont really care, the only point I was concerned with making was that this truck driver could not be charged by law enforcement for stealing the mans boat because as far as anyone on CF knew it was a job that was hired out to the truck driver,not a highjacking,not a theft ,I guess I expected everyone to "blindly dedicate themselves" to what I was saying(because it is true) If anyone else has a ? for the truck driver call him ,dont ask me ,i am not his agent,I am just someone who knew that no crime was commited after reading what the boat owner wrote in his first post on here and with only one side of the story...

Umm, you keep writing these long endless essays how the trucker is innocent.

Actually I think the word you used - "Hijacked" is actually what the trucker has done - he has hijacked the load - the boat.

It is amazing to me you keep defending the guy.

Have you not read any of the comments from guys who are or have been in the trucking business and learned something from those posts? They (we) have all declared the trucker's explanation of what he did and happened as inventions.

As for crime - many have expressed their belief that there has indeed been a crime committed here.

tropicalescape · 25-10-2012, 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dansante85

I said I had finished posting about this but since TropicalEscape is in constant contact with Dan, I was wondering if he could verify if the Dan Steadley who spoke at a function in El Paso recently is the same Dan Steadley the trucker we are speaking about. Trucker Dan claims to live in El Paso and tells everyone he is an attorney so it seems a big coincidence if this not him. Here's what I got off line.

Daniel M. Steadley, Esq., Georgetown School of Law, Juris Doctor,
will be our Guest Speaker.
Dan has served in the past as Deputy Chief of Staff
in the Joint Economic Committee
as well as being a Staff Member for the
US Senate Banking Committee,
Senator Strom Thurmond SC (R), Senator Connie Mack FL (R),
President George H.W. Bush, President Ronald Reagan,
and Congresswoman Margorie Holt MD (R).
He also served in the U.S. Navy Reserves at the JAG Headquarters
and Special Operations Command in the Pentagon.

I can neither confirm nor denie lol...This is silly,I am not in contact with this man ...Why in hell want YOU call him? His number has been posted several times ! he asked that any and all to call him if they wanted to talk to him! He runs a successful business from what i can tell, and alot of people on here would like to see that stopped because a couple of folks are disgruntled out of thousands of customers over the years...

tropicalescape · 25-10-2012, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christerart

Umm, you keep writing these long endless essays how the trucker is innocent.

Actually I think the word you used - "Hijacked" is actually what the trucker has done - he has hijacked the load - the boat.

It is amazing to me you keep defending the guy.

Have you not read any of the comments from guys who are or have been in the trucking business and learned something from those posts? They (we) have all declared the trucker's explanation of what he did and happened as inventions.

As for crime - many have expressed their belief that there has indeed been a crime committed here.

Well why in hell is the man not in jail?

tropicalescape · 25-10-2012, 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christerart

Umm, you keep writing these long endless essays how the trucker is innocent.

Actually I think the word you used - "Hijacked" is actually what the trucker has done - he has hijacked the load - the boat.

It is amazing to me you keep defending the guy.

Have you not read any of the comments from guys who are or have been in the trucking business and learned something from those posts? They (we) have all declared the trucker's explanation of what he did and happened as inventions.

As for crime - many have expressed their belief that there has indeed been a crime committed here.

I am not defending this guy,Im a super hero and I am fighting stupidity!..Innocent of what?

Dansante85 · 25-10-2012, 11:58

TropicalEscape, you are swinging after the bell. To paraphrase a famous Englishman, "The 'Poster' doth protest too much, methinks."

tropicalescape · 25-10-2012, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by skipmac

Also other scales on the route. Don't know Lake Norman NC but google maps shows the route goes through Charlotte. There are several certified public scales in the Charlotte area as well.

No excuse for the driver to not have a weight ticket.

I was refering to gov. scales..I would guess this man knew the weight was wrong ,he said once it was loaded he could not off load it as no one would allow it at their marina...That it was "POS"..I dont know it looked ok to me from the photos..

Dsanduril · 25-10-2012, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I am just someone who knew that no crime was commited after reading what the boat owner wrote in his first post

Trop, no offense your knowledge or expertise, but can you back that up by citation of any law? I cited my sources previously in this thread, and, based on only one side of the story (which I admit is not a good place to start), it appears to me that a "crime" has indeed been committed. It is criminal for a carrier to hold freight for anything other than the agreed upon freight charges, and then only after attempting delivery at the consigned destination and being refused payment. Anything else is by definition of the law "conversion". Please see the citations as previously posted.

On the civil side there is also the concept of the "informed shipper". As is clear from this thread, the OP does not qualify as an informed shipper, while the carrier, based on his website advertising, holds himself out as an expert in the matter of boat transportation. As such, the court will question who "should have known better" and will come down squarely on the side of the shipper. You don't want it to go to court? Then it is incumbent on the professional to behave professionally, which, again from a one-sided perspective, does not appear to be the case here. A professional would immediately notify the shipper of the location of the boat, and provide certified weigh tickets to substantiate his claim.

Do you ever get your hang gliding students up in the air, and then tell them "oh yeah, the price of this lesson didn't include instruction on how to land safely, if you want that you'll have to pay extra, and I want cash up front before I tell you how to do it without breaking your knees"? That's about how I view the actions of the trucking firm.

And then there's this:

Quote:

I am not in contact with this man

Quote:

he asked that any and all to call him if they wanted to talk to him

If you're not in contact, how do you know he asked to have people call him? I certainly haven't seen that request here, on SA, or on his website.