Boat Held Hostage By Marine Transport Company

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Therapy

I hope the bickering stops because I want to read to the end of the story.

well good luck with that!

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by CCBullseye

SNIP
The one who knew there were big problems is the yard for they refused to take the boat back.
SNIP

Yards will not take boats all the time, especially if the owner is not there to sign a contract agreeing to pay the yard. My understanding was that the boat was put on a trailer, pulled 250 miles, and weighed and found to be 8k lbs over weight (but the 8k lbs is kinda disputed). It is not clear if the trucker then drove back to the yard or called and asked if the boat could be returned. In any case I can see the yard asking some questions about payment and saying returns not accepted.

My first thought was the boat was water logged, but 8k is a lot of water for a boat to absorb. Not to say a boat could not have water up to the counter top, but most boat yards would notice where the water line was and hopefully pump it out, especially if it was to be hauled.

My problem with the 8k thing is it assumes way too many bozos ignoring something that would be obvious to even the most casual observer. How could a boat in a marina get from it's slip to where the lift to haul it without someone getting on the boat and not noticing it was full of water.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I have this guy on the phone right now and there is 2 sides of this story! Bob sent this boat to a lift that had no scale and was told that the boat weighed 19350 lb the reality is it weighs 27,500 lbs! he says he would have never touched the boat if he would of been privy to the weight....The FBI agent Mike Edmonton told him that it was a civil matter and to just deliver the boat when he could ...according to this guy Bob lied about the weight of the boat to get it moved cheaper.. then when the trailer had trouble the man started calling the law to no avail...the boat is in LA and the mast is for a boat that is a two year project that the man said was no hurry! If you want to call and get the story from the horses mouth he said to call him....I told you so! This man runs a good company and you can get info about some of the biggest companys that trust him...This man hauls boats and is raising his family and I can tell you from talking to him he is not worried...he said Bob wont call him and he needs his trailer back to haul more boats and that the boat is in a very safe place and when he gets the money for the damage to his trailer he will deliver the boat ..Bob was told the boat was a POS and to get it out of the yard and when they loaded it and found the problems the yard wouldnt let him unload it back in the yard...Dan says he has never experianced anything like this in 12 yrs. he said for the none belivers to call J-Boat and Sparcraft and that no one else would haul the boat !.. I dont know this man and dont have a dog in this fight....The mast will be delivered to Kemah in the near future! there is always two sides and we should all open our eyes and ears before we trash someone after hearing one side of a story,thats why he didnt want to mention the name of the company,that way you get his side and no other...

Now we get a bit of the other side of the story. It sounds to me like the transporter is depending on the travel lift weight. These scales are not certified and notoriously inaccurate. I would think that the transporter would know the tare weight of his rig and would have known he was over loaded the first time he went through a weigh station. He must have gone through at least 6-8 weigh stations to get from the east coast to LA. Why didn't one of the state DOTs stop him? So how did he get the boat all the way to LA with an overloaded rig?

You state that the OP lied about the weight. As has been suggested the boat might have had 1000 gallons of water in the bilge. The other option is that the travel lift weight is wrong. I had my boat lifted last year and the travel lift operator reported that the boat weighed 29800#. The manufacturers stated weight for the boat is 14900. I made a rough calculation based on the shape of my hulls and how much I draw and came up with a weight of 20,000# plus or minus. Now I can believe that I had 5000# of fuel, water, and provisions on board as I was provisioned for an extended cruise and that would mean that 20,000# is a reasonable weight for my boat. If my boat would have displaced nearly 30,000# my exhausts would be under water and they're about 8 inches above the water. The lift I was on was nearly new and not some old broken down rig.

If his rig broke down half way across the country, did he get it to LA on a different rig that could handle the load? I still don't understand why he continued after he "knew" the boat was over weight. It appears he had no problem at all finding a "safe" place to store it all the way across the country, why could he not find a similar place on the east coast near where he had it weighed. The possibility of a theft was based on the very limited information we got from the OP whom we have not heard from in a long time. It may be that the OP now knows the location and all of this is being handled by the lawyers and we're all just taking a wizz into the wind. If I had been transporting the boat I would not have moved any further than I had to once I knew my trailer was overloaded by 40%. I would have called the owner and told him to make other arrangements for his boat. I can't tell from the information presented here which side of the story is accurate but the trucker's explaination does not make any sense to me. He/you state that the owner deliberately lied to save money. What evidence do you have that the OP knew that the weight was significantly different than the manufacturers stated weight? You said that other companies had refused the load. Did he ask them for quotes for a 27,500# boat? Even if the OP deliberately lied, unless the damage to his trailer occurred in that first 250 miles, before he had it weighed, I would submit it was the transporter's responsibility.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

It's a pretty weak argument when he had only covered 250 miles before learning the true weight of the boat.

Even if he is a decent guy, he is being his own worst enemy by holding boats and masts hostage. Had he contacted the owner when he had the boat shifted and said, "I can't haul your boat any further, it's too heavy" none of this would have occurred.

In my humble opinion he has damaged his own equipment by knowingly hauling an overweight boat across the country.

As for the mast..........well, that just makes this guy something that the be nice rule doesn't permit me to say.

He told me the guy that owns the mast said he was in no hurry...he said that no one at the marina would allow him to unload the boat after finding the problem ...I talked to the marina guy and he said the boat was a POS and that no one would haul it, after the boat was loaded what was the driver to do ? If you are lied to and cant get the problem fixed what would anyone else have done,dumped it on the side of the road? This man runs a fine company from what I have been told by several customers of his ...The point I was making the whole time was that the guy didnt steal the boat and the FBI agrees with me and the local police agree with me ,I guess we are all wrong again and somebody else is right again! Now what tangent will this go off on now?The man has the boat and will keep the boat until the money in dispute is settled and the law will not be locking him up for stealing this boat,and that is all I have been saying from the start...

[skipmac]

I just spoke with the truck broker that handles most of our shipments. He checked on the DOT website. Under Big Dog Marine Transport, LLC, Daniel Steadley it says "This Carrier has no current Operating Authority with FMCSA."

FMCSA Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.

So does this mean Big Dog is exempt or just doesn't have current DOT permits?

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Now we get a bit of the other side of the story. It sounds to me like the transporter is depending on the travel lift weight. These scales are not certified and notoriously inaccurate. I would think that the transporter would know the tare weight of his rig and would have known he was over loaded the first time he went through a weigh station. He must have gone through at least 6-8 weigh stations to get from the east coast to LA. Why didn't one of the state DOTs stop him? So how did he get the boat all the way to LA with an overloaded rig?

You state that the OP lied about the weight. As has been suggested the boat might have had 1000 gallons of water in the bilge. The other option is that the travel lift weight is wrong. I had my boat lifted last year and the travel lift operator reported that the boat weighed 29800#. The manufacturers stated weight for the boat is 14900. I made a rough calculation based on the shape of my hulls and how much I draw and came up with a weight of 20,000# plus or minus. Now I can believe that I had 5000# of fuel, water, and provisions on board as I was provisioned for an extended cruise and that would mean that 20,000# is a reasonable weight for my boat. If my boat would have displaced nearly 30,000# my exhausts would be under water and they're about 8 inches above the water. The lift I was on was nearly new and not some old broken down rig.

If his rig broke down half way across the country, did he get it to LA on a different rig that could handle the load? I still don't understand why he continued after he "knew" the boat was over weight. It appears he had no problem at all finding a "safe" place to store it all the way across the country, why could he not find a similar place on the east coast near where he had it weighed. The possibility of a theft was based on the very limited information we got from the OP whom we have not heard from in a long time. It may be that the OP now knows the location and all of this is being handled by the lawyers and we're all just taking a wizz into the wind. If I had been transporting the boat I would not have moved any further than I had to once I knew my trailer was overloaded by 40%. I would have called the owner and told him to make other arrangements for his boat. I can't tell from the information presented here which side of the story is accurate but the trucker's explaination does not make any sense to me. He/you state that the owner deliberately lied to save money. What evidence do you have that the OP knew that the weight was significantly different than the manufacturers stated weight? You said that other companies had refused the load. Did he ask them for quotes for a 27,500# boat? Even if the OP deliberately lied, unless the damage to his trailer occurred in that first 250 miles, before he had it weighed, I would submit it was the transporter's responsibility.

Extra high weights reported by inexperienced lift operators is normal IME. The reason is that on most lifts you are looking at a load gauge for both straps, ie you might be reading 7k on the front strap and 10k on the back strap. Most lift operators just add these two numbers together and call it the total weight. I don't think that is at all accurate. I think a certain amount of load is shared by both gauges. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen many people get readings off the lift that were surprisingly high to them. Anyone know the truth of this for sure? I think a static load on a level pair (or more) of ground scales does work like this, but not sure about a dynamic load suspended in the air on two scales. I also think that being less than perfectly level, not plumb strap angles, slight swinging in the straps and other things can create false high loads on a lift scale. Not a good way to weigh a boat IMHO.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

It's a pretty weak argument when he had only covered 250 miles before learning the true weight of the boat.

Even if he is a decent guy, he is being his own worst enemy by holding boats and masts hostage. Had he contacted the owner when he had the boat shifted and said, "I can't haul your boat any further, it's too heavy" none of this would have occurred.

In my humble opinion he has damaged his own equipment by knowingly hauling an overweight boat across the country.

As for the mast..........well, that just makes this guy something that the be nice rule doesn't permit me to say.

I think he put it on another trailer and it is very near where it was going to ,so in spite of the problems this shows the mans intent to do what he was contracted to do,or maybe hes telling lies and it is at some mexican chop shop!maybe need to keep them hells angels on retainer...?

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Rocketman

Is' been a long time since I have seen someone so convinced that they were right, then again maybe I have seen it resently, in the upcomming elections.

I have been right all along and I knew I was right ...Ask the FBI if you still dont belive me..

[Dansante85]

TropicalEscape is certainly well informed about this case, as well informed as myself and I own the mast that Steadley has. Anyway, the fact is that Steadley accepted $1750 paid in full up front to pick up the mast on Sept 21 in Charlotte at SparCraft and deliver to Seabrook, TX, on Sept 22, a date he told myself, my wife, and the SparCraft rep in Seabrook. He has not done delivered as of the time of this post. That is not saying anything good or bad about Steadley, it is just a fact. He last told the SparCraft rep that he would be there with the mast today at noon. Fact is he wasn't. Just the facts.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

The OP's thread title has no bearing on the legal niceties involved here. Maybe it's theft, maybe it's extortion but whatever it is, it sure as hell ain't legal, despite your arguments to the contrary.

I know you think your more intelligent than me ,what about the FBI? it is legal as I have been saying all along,despite yours and everyone elses arguments to the contrary...this is one of those I told you so moments but ,I dont fill better because of all the ugly things that have been said...

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by Dansante85

TropicalEscape is certainly well informed about this case, as well informed as myself and I own the mast that Steadley has. Anyway, the fact is that Steadley accepted $1750 paid in full up front to pick up the mast on Sept 21 in Charlotte at SparCraft and deliver to Seabrook, TX, on Sept 22, a date he told myself, my wife, and the SparCraft rep in Seabrook. He has not done delivered as of the time of this post. That is not saying anything good or bad about Steadley, it is just a fact. He last told the SparCraft rep that he would be there with the mast today at noon. Fact is he wasn't. Just the facts.

He told me tomorrow,guess we will see...good luck

[Mimsy]

It seemed very odd to me at the beginning of TropicEscape's entry into this thread that he would take the tack he has chosen. Now it seems he has managed to gain quite a bit of inside knowledge on the situation which seems amazing since no one else can seem to track down Dan Steadey.

I am interested in how it all pans out. Hoping that CreoleBelle gets his boat and that the mast is delivered to Seabrook. (wow, only a month late!)

I have learned quite a bit from this thread. Namely, never, ever under any circumstances have Big Dog Marine transport anything for me, my friends or anyone I might meet what so ever.

[Dansante85]

TropicalEscape, do me a favor and ask your friend Steadley the exact location of my mast please. If he will not tell you, would you please ask him why not? I would at least like to go and verify its condition.

[Sailmonkey]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

I think he put it on another trailer and it is very near where it was going to ,so in spite of the problems this shows the mans intent to do what he was contracted to do,or maybe hes telling lies and it is at some mexican chop shop!maybe need to keep them hells angels on retainer...?

I still think he needs to present a weight ticket from a certified scale showing the boats weight was grotesquely mis-represented.

Either way the are still two really unhappy customers of his on the Internet, and as near as I can tell at least one other has popped up on sailing anarchy.

Unless he posts his side here or on anarchy he'll continue to look like a schiester.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by minaret

Extra high weights reported by inexperienced lift operators is normal IME. The reason is that on most lifts you are looking at a load gauge for both straps, ie you might be reading 7k on the front strap and 10k on the back strap. Most lift operators just add these two numbers together and call it the total weight. I don't think that is at all accurate. I think a certain amount of load is shared by both gauges. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've seen many people get readings off the lift that were surprisingly high to them. Anyone know the truth of this for sure? I think a static load on a level pair (or more) of ground scales does work like this, but not sure about a dynamic load suspended in the air on two scales. I also think that being less than perfectly level, not plumb strap angles, slight swinging in the straps and other things can create false high loads on a lift scale. Not a good way to weigh a boat IMHO.

I just found this on the IRC web site with regards to determining boat weights.

What is NOT acceptable is recording the load in each sling of a travel lift by either load cell or the travel lift’s in-built equipment. The latter particularly has been shown to be capable of errors of up to 50%! The former is erroneous to the extent that the slings are not vertical, either athwartships or fore and aft. Simple geometry shows that very small errors in sling angles rapidly combine to produce gross errors.