Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 13-04-2011, 00:22   #61
Registered User
 
Butler's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Boat: Pearson 281
Posts: 678
Images: 18
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

When I was last boarded by our local port police (who do seem to have a very disrespectful and unprofessional attitude for some reason) I had to stop what was happening, ask for names then remind them that as a citizen I had the right to be treated in a respectful manner. Then I said "look guys lets start this again... You have a tough job I know but that is no reason to be rude, right?

They were steaming mad didn't say much and crawled over every inch of my boat, I answered their questions, produced my papers cheerfully and they left.
I'm not going to be a jerk about it but I want them to understand that there are limits. It helps that we run a very tight ship and that my dad was a cop for 35 yrs so I'm pretty comfortable around them.

We see them often... everybody waves hello
__________________

__________________
Butler is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 06:32   #62
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,586
Images: 240
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
Simple food chain thing...dogs have teeth...we have pepper spray and thanks to Mr. Colt a variety of things that put us up at the top if we maintain control.

Working with law enforcement is usually easy if you try also...but based on your response...I don't think you have much respect for LE and they can sense it like your dog can.

The reality is ......most LEOs, postal workers, surveyors, etc..etc all have been scared by dogs at one time....me included... and I've had a dog most of my life... if the owner isn't in control...then they take the initiative.
Exactly!
Your dog threatened (or appeared to) a LEO, and he (LEO) prepared to (but didn’t) defend himself with nonlethal force.
Where’s the problem?
Exercise control over your animal, and others won’t have to.
__________________

__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 06:56   #63
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Coastal VA
Posts: 130
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeldsusa View Post
The exact truth is they (gvts) pick on us because they can. We being a minority ...Why? Can any bureaucrat demonstrate that little boats cause pollution? ...Why is that and how does hassling boat owners help?

I guess it doesn't help, and that's an important point - the only benefit is to the politician who can then SAY he is helping... What amazes and saddens me is the irony within the mechanism of how this happens, and its frequency.

The irony creeps in (or storms in, in the case of boarding by government "poop patrol" agents) when certain 'rich yacht owners' (just regular boat owners) rally politically against 'rich wall street execs' (just regular white collar professionals) and 'rich oil companies' (just regular companies who make average profits for their volume of biz) and 'rich millionaires' (just regular hard-working career couples or small business owners, usually in their 50s and 60s, earning $200,000 between them).

Huge, bloated, expensive, inefficient, wasteful and by definition, oppressive government is built by its own citizens (cum subjects), one pet peeve (political special interest) at a time.

"What is ominous is the ease with which some people go from saying that they don't like something to saying that the government should forbid it. When you go down that road, don't expect freedom to survive very long."
-- Thomas Sowell
__________________
Whimsy is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 07:12   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 107
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

"So what's next, metermaids with guns?" Quote from perchance


No MERmaids with guns?
__________________
jmo64 is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 07:29   #65
Registered User
 
endoftheroad's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Key West
Boat: Westsail 32 and Herreshoff 28
Posts: 1,159
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Exactly!
Your dog threatened (or appeared to) a LEO, and he (LEO) prepared to (but didn’t) defend himself with nonlethal force.
Where’s the problem?
Exercise control over your animal, and others won’t have to.
Now how was I supposed to have control of my animal when the cop was dictating my every move and ordered me into my cabin for my documents after jumping into my cockpit with dog behind him?

Some of these responses here have really let me down.
__________________
endoftheroad is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 07:45   #66
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

From the FWC's own web site:

Law Enforcement Authority
  • Law enforcement officers of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission, sheriff's deputies of the various counties, and any other authorized enforcement officer, shall have the authority to order the removal of vessels deemed to be an interference or hazard to public safety, enforce all boating safety laws, or cause any inspection to be made of all vessels in accordance to state law.
  • A law enforcement officer may stop any vessel for the purpose of checking for compliance with boating safety equipment requirements.
They claim only to be able to inspect in accordance to state law, not federal. If in fact they have been deputized to do federally mandated inspections (boardings), why don't they say so?
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 08:24   #67
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by endoftheroad View Post
Now how was I supposed to have control of my animal when the cop was dictating my every move and ordered me into my cabin for my documents after jumping into my cockpit with dog behind him?

Some of these responses here have really let me down.
As an OWNER of an animal it is your responsibility to inform anyone that you have a animal, if they get in range, and that you be allowed to secure that animal before they approach. Whether it be a dog, cat, horse, bird, snake, rat, chinchilla or whatever, for their own safety, otherwise enter at their own risk. (Watch out for chimps)

Being raised on a horse ranch, the first thing an owner does before a stranger approaches a horse is to worn that person, especially a stud horse. One always comes from the front first and never walks around behind that horse w/o your hand on their rump.
Same thing with a dog. A dog is protective of their environment/owner and every owner should know that, otherwise one is not qualified to be an owner. Life has many responsibilities and handling an animal responsibly is one of them.
As a childhood paper boy I use to carry an ammonia squirt bottle for those dogs that people didn't properly care for.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 08:26   #68
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,832
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Some points to ponder...for those that don't like the man...well...having been one and knowing plenty...maybe they don't like you either!!!!

The USFWS’s Office of Law Enforcement is responsible for the enforcement of federal laws which protect both domestic and international threatened/imperiled species of wildlife. State FWC officers enforce state fish and wildlife laws and are federally deputized to enforce federal laws protecting fish and wildlife.

ALABAMA MAN PLEADS GUILTY IN
ASSAULT CASE ON FWC OFFICERS
An Alabama charter boat captain plead guilty to assault last week in federal
court in Mobile for trying to use his 46-foot vessel to ram a boat occupied by two
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission (FWC) law enforcement officers
in April southwest of Perdido Key.
Sandy Smith, 61, OrangeBeach, will be sentenced in January in U.S. District
Court in Mobile.
Smith’s vessel Misty was 22 miles south of the Florida-Alabama state line
April 17 when FWC officers Dan Hahr and Tim Trepanier, who are deputized as
special federal officers, approached intent on conducting a resource check. The
officers suspected those on board were red snapper fishing, even though the
recreational red snapper season in federal waters didn’t open until April 21.
According to a report filed by Hahr, as they tried to overtake the Misty on the
port side, Smith turned his vessel hard to port, almost causing a serious collision.
The officers also saw fish thrown over the side of the vessel before they got it
stopped.
Smith’s prosecution is expected to send a signal to all boaters in federal
waters along the GulfCoast that they need to think twice before assaulting an
officer.

All kidding aside...many of you are probably good boaters...however most boaters are reckless or clueless about many aspects of boating even at the basic level let alone an advanced level. Even many LEOs are not really "experienced" boaters.

So there's a lot going on out there and the last thing an LEO needs is to worry about getting bit by a dog who may or may not have had a rabies shot.
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 08:46   #69
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Penetanguishene, Ontario
Boat: Islander 29
Posts: 18
Images: 5
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

This thread sounds to me like the LEO didn't respect the fact that he was on someone elses property. Unless I had done something wrong I would expect to be treated with courtesy and if this didn't happen I'd get the officer's badge number and name and put in an official complaint. It is the responsibility of the officer to uphold the law, not antagonize the public.

Just like the officer, the dog was only doing it's job ....if the officer felt threatened he should have backed off until the owner could control the dog and not make things worse by issuing threats.

Common courtesy is now considered optional by most LEOs .... maybe the world would be a better place if we all treated others as we would like to be treated.
__________________
Banzai is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 08:52   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 586
Images: 3
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Seems to be a couple of things going on here. First, no one wants uninvited guests and it's not clear who has the authority to board your boat without your permission. We need to know just what our rights are and what procedures are required of the "borders" so that our response is appropriate. We all know about USCG but not about local agencies, fish watchers, Homeland Security, etc. There's no end to 'em these days. Second, the natural tendency of most of us to dislike intrusive government in the form of someone wearing a uniform and a 9mm. In this area, I have always found that the great majority of people will react to you as you react to them. Meanspiritedness and hostility receives the same in return.
__________________
smurphny is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 09:06   #71
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,590
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Can every complainer be wrong? There is enough smell to believe something real is there causing it.

Many of us have personal experiences with so called officials who were appointed, anointed, badged and sometimes armed that causes a public relation problem and it seems to be getting worse. Jack boots and a firearm are very intimidating. Sure, most officials I encounter are fair minded and understanding. But there are too many out there with attitude problems.

Law enforcement officials many times could give a damn about how they are preceived by the public. That needs to be changed on a national level. I doubt I will ever see much improvement in my lifetime. Who polices the police?


Foggy
__________________
foggysail is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 09:08   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 1,975
Talking Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

I think the difficulty in parsing the issue(s) raised by the OP stem from the fact that several issues have been conflated. But it is a good rant.

I deal with LEO's frequently in my profession. They have a job to do and in aviation we all want them around. In most cases if there is a problem it's not the LEO, it's the law that's a problem. Don't like what they are doing? The solution is to change the law.

If you live in the south USA you will have frequent encounters with people of "faith". Depending on your point of view it will either make you feel warm and fuzzy and safe or alternatively make you wanna puke. Myself, I will not be taking up space in that zone as a resident. Seems the OP is weary of the ordeal. Can't say I blame him.

Dogs are great, you can't beat em. They are however prone to acting like dogs which can render them unsuitable in many human to human situations. Seems like the OP encountered just such a situation.

So? Move the boat to a more remote location, vote your concience and try to be polite to the cops.

Todd
__________________
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 09:12   #73
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Who polices the police?
The Media. They luv a good story. All one has to do is call the Media and I'm sure the situation would get reported with the story of BOTH sides.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 09:55   #74
Registered User
 
psneeld's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Avalon, NJ
Boat: Albin 40 double cabin Trawler
Posts: 1,832
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail View Post
Can every complainer be wrong? There is enough smell to believe something real is there causing it.

Many of us have personal experiences with so called officials who were appointed, anointed, badged and sometimes armed that causes a public relation problem and it seems to be getting worse. Jack boots and a firearm are very intimidating. Sure, most officials I encounter are fair minded and understanding. But there are too many out there with attitude problems.

Law enforcement officials many times could give a damn about how they are preceived by the public. That needs to be changed on a national level. I doubt I will ever see much improvement in my lifetime. Who polices the police?


Foggy
But who says the complainers are a majority? Certainly not an internet forum....this is just entertainment!
__________________
psneeld is offline   Reply
Old 13-04-2011, 10:17   #75
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 205
Re: I was just boarded by the FWC at anchor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
The solution is to change the law.


Todd
That ship has long sailed. Sure sounds good but who care about rights or sensibilities of a cruiser/boater? Anchoring laws have been changed here in Fla but only because the legislature was convinced it was a $$ issue. Not because of any moral or legal imperative.

endoftheroad were you given any warning or communication at all that he was to be boarded? Time to secure your dog?

Quote:
FLORIDA FISH AND WILDLIFE
CONSERVATION COMMISSION
DIVISION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT
GENERAL ORDERS
COLONEL JULIE JONES
TITLE
EFFECTIVE DATE
OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL OPERATIONS
CHAPTER
July 21, 2008
PAGES
GENERAL ORDER 30
5
APPROVED
RESCINDS/AMENDS
November 1, 2000
IPM 05-08
1
POLICY
A This General Order applies to Endurance class and Intermediate class vessels assigned to offshore
patrol.
B The Division will establish procedures for securing Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPVs) during inclement
weather.
C The Division will establish procedures and provide guidance to members on the safe operation of
Offshore Patrol Vessels to provide for effective public safety, fisheries and domestic security patrols.
(1) To command an Endurance class Offshore Patrol Vessel, except in emergency situations,
members must hold at least a United States Coast Guard (USCG) Captain’s License (OUPV/
6-pack).
(2) The standard crew for an Endurance class OPV is three sworn members and the vessel
captain. The minimum crew required for operation is two sworn members and the vessel
captain.
(3) OPVs may be equipped with an approved automatic weapon.
(4) Boarding teams should have at least two members.
(5) Vessel captains are Alternate Evidence Custodians.
(6) The vessel captain will have the final decision for all actions regarding crew and vessel safety.
(7) Crew members must follow the FWC Offshore Patrol Vessel Manual.
(8) All safety, navigation equipment and vessel systems shall meet Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS)
standards, federal and state laws.
OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL OPERATIONS
GO 30
-1-
July 21, 2008
(9) All OPV occupants shall wear an approved floatation device with an attached man-overboard
(MOB) light when outside the enclosed cabin area when vessel is not moored.
(10) All Offshore Patrol Vessels will be equipped with the following equipment at a minimum:
(a) Communications equipment to include, FWC radios, VHF radio, cellular phone, Satellite
phone or other long range communications systems.
(b) Functioning navigational equipment to include, compass, charts (paper and/or electronic),
GPS and radar. Endurance Class vessels should have a minimum of two independent
radar, GPS, and compass systems (one magnetic compass and one flux gate compass is
permissible). The minimum requirement for underway operations is one of each system.
(c) Emergency lights and siren.
(d) Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon (EPIRB).
(e) Inflatable offshore life raft capable of supporting Vessel Captain and crew.
(f)
“Emergency Ditch Box” to include USCG-approved Visual Distress Signals (VDS),
waterproof handheld VHF Marine Radio, first aid kit, and an emergency manual water
desalination and filtration system.
(g) A current copy of USCG Navigational Rules.
(h) First aid and first responder equipment.
(i) Automatic External Defibrillator (AED) (Endurance Class only)
(j) Bilge dewatering capabilities
1. A minimum of two (2) automatic bilge pumps positioned to allow pump out of all
spaces. These pumps must be wired to function when the vessel’s power is turned
off.
2. A minimum of one additional method (portable gasoline, 12 volt portable or genset
driven/ powered pump) capable of pump out of all spaces.
3. Endurance Class vehicles shall be equipped with audible and visual bilge alarms
capable of dock-side alert when vessel is moored and unoccupied.
4. Vessels that, by design, have inaccessible sealed hull spaces may be exempt from
some dewatering requirements on a case-by-case basis as approved by the Offshore
Patrol Fleet Coordinator.
D Definitions
(1) Endurance Class Offshore Patrol Boats are those capable of extended patrol in offshore
areas during varying weather conditions. The Endurance class fleet contains vessels from 42
to 85 feet in length. These vessels have berthing and support facilities and equipment to
enable them to operate on multi-day missions without returning to port.
(2) Intermediate Class Offshore Patrol Boats are larger than standard near shore patrol vessels
around 32 feet in length. These vessels are capable of short-duration day patrols of offshore
areas in varying weather conditions.
2
RESPONSIBILITIES
A Division
(1) Ensure that the OPV captain and crew are trained in the proper operation and care of the
Offshore Patrol Vessel and associated equipment.
(2) Ensure that all required equipment is procured for and assigned to OPVs.
OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL OPERATIONS
GO 30
-2-
July 21, 2008
B Regional Commanders
(1) Approve the storage locations for OPVs during hurricanes and other emergencies.
(2) Ensure that Offshore Patrol Vessels are provided with required crew.
C Area Captains
(1) Establish and maintain alternate boarding teams to conduct boarding operations from OPVs.
(2) Resolve conflicts between the vessel captain’s request for alternate crew members and patrol
supervisor needs.
D Offshore Patrol Vessel Captain
(1) Ensure the safe operation, readiness, and maintenance of the assigned Offshore Patrol Vessel
and associated equipment.
(2) Supervise the assigned crew.
(3) Ensure that all laws, policies and procedures are followed.
(4) Ensure that evidence is properly handled and stored in accordance with General Order 16.
(5) Maintain required logs and document patrol activities.
(6) Determine when approved automatic weapon should be mounted.
(7) Ensure adequate supplies of food, fresh water, fuel, clothing, lines and other necessary
supplies are on board prior to each mission.
(8) Ensure all required equipment is checked for operational status prior to leaving the dock. All
non-operational equipment shall be repaired or replaced as soon as practical.
(9) Identify locations to secure OPV during hurricanes and other emergencies, and forward a
written recommendation to the statewide offshore patrol fleet coordinator for comments, and
the Regional Commander for approval. Original plans will be maintained in the Regional Office
and a copy maintained aboard the Offshore Patrol Vessel.
E Offshore Patrol Fleet Coordinator
(1) (2) Provide recommendations and consulting services to command staff and vessel captains
related to offshore fleet planning, operations, staffing, and maintenance.
(3) Conduct operational readiness inspections of all offshore vessels as needed.
(4)
F
Coordinate and standardize equipment and operations between various offshore patrol
vessels.
Plan and provide incident command and control for multi-vessel or extended deployment
special details.
Offshore Patrol Vessel crew and boarding teams
(1) Follow procedures outlined in the FWC Offshore Patrol Vessel Manual.
(2) Perform basic vessel maintenance and upkeep.
(3) Operate auxiliary equipment and perform duties as an able seaman.
(4) Stand watch.
(5) Conduct search and rescue operations.
(6) Enforce all applicable federal and state laws.
(7) Assist federal, state, and local law enforcement agencies.
(8) Board vessels and complete boarding reports and other documentation as required.
OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL OPERATIONS
GO 30
-3-
July 21, 2008
3
PROCEDURES
A Boarding procedures
(1) Notify the Communications Center of the location as well as the identity of the vessel to be
boarded.
(2) The boarding crew will wear Division-approved personal flotation devices.
(3) Boarding crew members will always be in uniform and carry functioning portable radios for
communication.
(4) The boarding crew should immediately identify themselves as law enforcement officers to the
boarded vessel’s occupants and state the reason for boarding.
(5) The boarding crew will maintain communications with the OPV Captain and apprise the vessel
captain of their status during the boarding.
(6) The boarding crew will conduct a complete written inspection prior to concluding the boarding.
B Securing large vessels during storm events
(1) All circumstances must be considered when preparing to secure vessels in the path of a storm.
Plans should be based on reasonable prudent mariner principles.
(2) Possible short routes for escaping the storm’s path will be identified and updated routinely
based on forecasted track of the storm.
(3) Long distance evacuation plans shall include crew transportation back to residence.
(4) The vessel captain will have a contingency plan for checking the condition of the vessel as
soon as weather conditions permit.
(5) The vessel captain has the authority and ability to make sound maritime risk management
decisions based on prevailing conditions.
(6) Each vessel captain should coordinate a telephone conference call at least 72 hours prior to an
anticipated storm landfall with the statewide OPV coordinator, Regional Commander, and
appropriate Deputy Director for a final decision on where to secure the vessel.
(7) Safe mooring locations in protected waters should be identified in advance, and agreements
with entities that control these safe locations should be in place.
(8) Basic mooring standards are prudent and should include, double line moorings, redundant
safety lines for each mooring point, double/triple anchoring, and mooring point clean up.
(9) A minimum of a 1” - 1.5 “ Double Braid, or Triple Twist nylon line is required for use in securing
vessels. Line will be vessel specific, double braid is preferred.
(10) Each vessel captain will determine the line that is best suited for securing their assigned
vessel.
(11) The required line will be properly stored to protect the line from the elements.
(12) Properly secured chaffing gear is mandatory.
(13) The haul-out of a vessel should be considered as a LAST OPTION, and contractual
arrangements will be made well in advance of a storm. If possible, and preferably by contract,
the vendor performing the haul-out will be obligated to return the vessel to the water as soon
as possible after the storm.
OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL OPERATIONS
GO 30
-4-
July 21, 2008
4
FORMS
FWC/DLE-045 Incident Summary Report
FWC/DLE-045A Incident Summary Report Narrative
OFFSHORE PATROL VESSEL OPERATIONS
GO 30
-5-
July 21, 2008
__________________

__________________
Noname1 is offline   Reply
Closed Thread

Tags
anchor

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Have You Been Boarded ? Searched ? SemperParatus Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 114 22-08-2011 17:20
Avoiding Getting Boarded dpex Health, Safety & Related Gear 92 20-03-2010 08:14
What the !#@% Boarded by Sheriff AND USCG Salmon Hatchery General Sailing Forum 59 22-04-2009 14:53
FWC Yanmar 30hp Springbok Engines and Propulsion Systems 3 11-06-2008 12:54



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.