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psneeld · 05-10-2013, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheechako

sounds like they really had a nit pick going on for some reason. I have been boarded, but worse case they told me that something was out of date or not correct and nees to be replaced. Establishing you as a "unsafe voyage " was way beyone what I've seen. Geez, that would piss me off too. It really rings of something you did to piss them off... dont know what that would be though... You were on the east coast US right? So what if you had guns aboard? Nothing Illegal about that....

Absolutely not...as soon as they saw the fire extinguishers and several other questionable things...termnation would have been common.

Where I am..(hopefully still trained from when I was ops officer)..they board you right in front of a marina where those types of items are easily replaced right in the ships store then off you go...just doing their job.

My guess...is the initial slow down had something to do with it...not sure what but it can set the tone...

The next biggie...is not wearing type V PFDs (hybrids or inflatables that must be worn to count) when operating...I think that's one of those "if ya don't know that one...what in the world else don'tch know?" if the other PFDs were accessible (not in the dingy) then yes...not sure why they were so nitpicky.

The whistle thing is easy...think long and hard why the USCG has requirements...if ya can't figure it out....well then best to get that USCGAUX decal every year...

DeepFrz · 05-10-2013, 15:15

I was just wondering if you had ever read the pamphlets, leaflets, booklets or other such safety lists that are just about everywhere that boating equipment is sold?

You could start here. Home Page

svmariane · 05-10-2013, 15:16

Re: fire extinguishers. Ref: USCG: Fire Extinguishing Systems
Scroll down half a page to PORTABLE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS; read and heed.

Don't know what you bought, but ours have the USCG approval indicated on the label. If yours don't have that USCG info then I'm sorry, but you'll have to shell out more cash.

Just noodling here but, after you buy replacement extinguishers, maybe you could see if there is an USCG Auxiliary in your area? Or US Power Squadron?

My understanding is that they do safety inspections called a VSC, provide a document if your vessel passes (and maybe a porthole sticker).

Said document could be shown (Or waved about self-righteously

) when next approached by the regular CG patrol. Won't stop them from boarding if they want, of course, but might cause them to lighten up on you.

Re: air horns. I can't locate anything that states the horns must be marked with USCG approval, and I'll leave that to somebody more supple in research. But I'm with you: my horn has no markings but its packaging and the company adds stated it met USCG approval for vessels "up to" xx feet. And who in the world would drag around the ocean that packaging material? Pfft... Something seems amiss there about your incident...

rebel heart · 05-10-2013, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi303

As to inflating vs foam filled lifejackets... i would make a wild guess than autoinflate would sink, inflate at depth and pop up somewhere you can't see it immediately? Whereas foam will be on the surface where you could swim to it and pull it on in the water?

Just a guess, but it has the pernicious sort of logic bureaucrats like to make rules around.

Another reality is that having 0 other-than-$300-self-inflaters onboard is a great indicator that when a few people show up for a sundown cruise there are now insufficient PFDs. Not having even a single type 1 or 2 onboard a vessel of that size is just a little weird.

You can argue that wouldn't be the case obviously, but when you add up the other oversights it's a little hard to make a case that regulations are always followed on that vessel.

Sid at SailAway · 05-10-2013, 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by rebel heart

A tad heavy handed, but seriously you didn't have the PFD's onboard or the proper fire extinguishers. The fire extinguisher stuff might sound trivial but it prevents cheap welded garbage from ending up on boats. Likewise, the PFD rules are pretty clear cut.

The USCG is the one dealing with dead bodies, burned boats, and putting their lives in harm's way to safe mariners. If they want you to test the whistle, test the whistle.

I did have PFD's onboard. Eight onboard the boat and four in the dink. Out of the eight onboard two were the auto inflate type. But, according to them the auto inflate are only legal if you are wearing them. in other words if we had no other jackets onboard or in the dink we would have been cited for not wearing the auto PFD's. I understand about junk extinguishers, but the old ones I have are defiantly better then the CG approved ones I bought at West Marine. That's why I kept them as backups.

The air horn worked as did the whistle. Neither had CG approval but the horn was not ok with them and we would have been cited if not for the whistles. I do keep whistles in the dink, on the boat and on the PFD's.

Lake-Effect · 05-10-2013, 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid at SailAway

The whole situation just left me a little confused. Why would a horn need a coast guard approval but not a whistle? Why do we have to wear the auto inflate jackets to be legal but not the ski type ones?

We have one of those pump-up horns ... on our 19' boat. They sound like a party horn...That is your only noise-maker (other than whistles) on a cruising cat??

We have the same rule in Canada re auto-inflate vests vs basic PFDs. Solution - every boat should have 4 or more basic certified PFDs, available most places for like $60 or less for a 4-pack.

All this stuff, including the rule about having to wear the inflatable PFDs, is in printed material and on the CG websites, so, respectfully, if this all left you confused, that's a sign you need to get up-to-date on the safety regs.

Robin3 · 05-10-2013, 15:51

This certainly a subject that concerns us with our new to us boat. the previous kleptomaniac took the signal flares and fog horn so I know we need to buy replacements, plus the fire extinguishers are out of date so need those. We have absloutelt very top of the range European auto inflate lifejackets with built in harnesses and crutch straps, but whilst they are EU approved they are not USCG approved. we have some manky olf pfds in a cockpit locker that I may dump and replace with a bag of new ones on offer at West recently for about $50 that We could simply 'store' in the dinghy (RIB) that hangs in davits on the stern.

I also thought about asking the local CG to do a 'free' inspection in the hope a stickerwould keep the challengers at arms length???

I'm a Brit if that helps understand where my thoughts come from, but my US wife and I live in the US on the ICW at Daytona beach. and will cruise from there.in our 1998 Beneteau Oceanis 36 CC irrelevant to my comment you cannot 'buy' safety but we do have two fixed DSC VHF sets s plus a handheld VHF in the grab bag which does also contain a whistle and signal mirror as well as other bits like spare batteries for the torch also kept in there and the handheld and so on.

I have a healthy regard for all things safety, but also firmly believe that you cannot 'buy' safety , that it is more a state of mind coupled with and applied with large dollops of commonsense. I will put the flameproof suit on now......

keepondancin · 05-10-2013, 16:05

It took a very long time to get inflatable PFD's CG approved. If I remember correctly, Boat US was very instrumental in the approval process. Originally, it didn't look like it was going to happen, because inflatables do require maintenance, and also need active participation if not auto inflatable. I think the wearing requirement was part of a compromise. You also have to be careful about about how you mount the fire extinguishers, because if not mounted properly, they will be non conforming. All this is the responsibility of the master to keep in conformance.

psneeld · 05-10-2013, 16:18

some newer inflatables don't have to be worn to count as they are type III...

fire extinguishers should be mounted but you can't fail for not having them mounted..just a lecture should be involved from the Coasties.

The trick with extinguishers is the mounting bracket...a UL one is the exact same as one that is also USCG approved but doesn't have the retaining strap on the mount....they are so cheap now at marine stores...doesn't pay not to have the 1 or 2 that are required...then a basketful of the better/cheaper ones from big box stores.

mrohr · 05-10-2013, 16:22

The police state advances.

Sid at SailAway · 05-10-2013, 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I was just wondering if you had ever read the pamphlets, leaflets, booklets or other such safety lists that are just about everywhere that boating equipment is sold?

You could start here. Home Page

With the exception of the not CG approved extinguishers and confusion on my part about the rules regarding type v PFD's, my boat and my attitude towards safety go far beyond what is offered in those lists and pamphlets you find at marinas and West Marine. They are good for their target audience, the weekend boater. Again, with the exception if the extinguishers I had everything onboard that they required and more. Heck, even my dog has a PDF. Safety carries over even on the dink. Onboard is a handheld VHF, PFD's, at least one throwable, anchor, a few tools, a few spares, small pair binoculars, one spare 50' line, patch kit, two whistles, bailer, nav light and boarding ladder. Now that's just on the dink! How might you think my boat is prepared and equipped? For those that think maybe I'm a little short on safety knowledge, respectfully, please think again...

boden36 · 05-10-2013, 16:31

I don't want a pickle, just want to ride on my motor-cycle.
Regards,
Richard.

Robin3 · 05-10-2013, 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid at SailAway

With the exception of the not CG approved extinguishers and confusion on my part about the rules regarding type v PFD's, my boat and my attitude towards safety go far beyond what is offered in those lists and pamphlets you find at marinas and West Marine. They are good for their target audience, the weekend boater. Again, with the exception if the extinguishers I had everything onboard that they required and more. Heck, even my dog has a PDF. Safety carries over even on the dink. Onboard is a handheld VHF, PFD's, at least one throwable, anchor, a few tools, a few spares, small pair binoculars, one spare 50' line, patch kit, two whistles, bailer, nav light and boarding ladder. Now that's just on the dink! How might you think my boat is prepared and equipped? For those that think maybe I'm a little short on safety knowledge, respectfully, please think again...

I wasn't suggesting anything but have been behind a few folk in West who were buying their safety stuff as per CG booklet and very obviously had no clue what they were doing other than perhaps how the cooler lid opened.

in our case because the boat is federally documented it has to be in my wife's name so presumably she is the 'master' as I'm not a US citizen, so it will be her that the CG drag off to jail..

I want us to comply with the regs, however pedantic, but have seen rather too much of officialdom and paperwork in the last couple of years whilst getting my green card issued in London and buying the (motor) boat we lived on for a year, then sold after I had a stroke and replaced it with the current (bit smaller) sailboat and a condo on shore.

WE have a guy project managing our refit on the sailboat so we will get him involved with meeting all the safety gear rules as well, there goes some more green stuff I Guess, but I doubt for one minute we will be any safer than if I went with commonsense and 50 years of cruising/race boat owning experience, albeit gained on the other side of the pond.

DeepFrz · 05-10-2013, 16:57

Robin, call the US CG Auxiliary and they will do a free safety check and leave you with a list of items you need if you are short. When you comply they will give you a sticker which will help keep the CG away.