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Old 18-10-2013, 18:13   #301
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

Sid-
I would guess the local coasties on a boat ignored a 65' Viking because that usually spells "MONEY" and money often files complaints with the politicians they regularly donate money to. Ratty old small craft are simply lower hanging less risky fruit. But let's face it, it doesn't matter if the operator came from Mars. AS responsible operator with a big expensive boat WOULD make a point to know the local buoyage and regs before casting off. Maybe he was just funning you by asking which side the bouys should be on.<G>

Robin-
From what our Nooze report, about 1:10 drivers in the US either has no insurance, no license (suspended or revoked, etc. which means an insurer wouldn't pay anyway) or a similar issue. In Florida that goes from 1:10 to 1:4, that's right, 25% of the drivers apparently have no insurance and the Florida DMV officially has stated they can't figure out any way to enforce the requirement because it is "technologically impossible". Despite the fact that most other states have enforced it for years now, by daily database dumps when insurance isn't kept up, followed by daily seizures with tow trucks.

By contrast, in NY if you let your insurance lapse the insurer notifies the state DMV within 24 hours, the very next day, and once that happens your plate number goes out to the sheriff for tow and seizure. They have cars with license plate cameras, they just drive around and scan the parked cars and wait for the "beep" to grab them. At the same time, fines and penalties are imposed and your license and registration are frozen. All automatically, all within 24 hours. NYS is not alone in doing things this way, for many years now. (They use the same system for ticket scofflaws, too.)

Licensing and registration are often either laxly enforced or not enforced, the real risk is that if your paperwork is not in order, your insurer can walk away from you and leave you with a major financial problem. That will vary locally, as will the definition of "residency" which may vary from state to state, and goes beyond simply having a mailing address.

You can think of the US as being "Europe before the EU". We have a common currency, sure, but every couple of hours the sovereign borders change and the rules often change with them.
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Old 18-10-2013, 18:31   #302
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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You can think of the US as being "Europe before the EU". We have a common currency, sure, but every couple of hours the sovereign borders change and the rules often change with them.
Ah what bliss, Europe pre bureaucracy!


yes I understand. I was surprised to discover many years ago that it was an offence to smuggle 'fags' (down boys, cigarettes to you lot) across State borders. At the time I was a tad concerned that I had just purchased a carton of 200 at a truck stop and taken them across a state line (I forget where) in the boot ( trunk) because they were cheaper than where we were headed.. I save even more these days as both of us gave up smoking fags totally, me 10 and her 7 years back.
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Old 18-10-2013, 20:45   #303
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

About those blue plastic drums full of gasoline on board that Viking....

I think that most blue plastic drums are UN 1A1 rated containers & I've seen flammable liquids shipped in them before legally. I seem to remember that there is some rule that gasoline needs to be in a container that is either red, or has a red label. Assuming that this guy met those packaging regulations, are there other rules that prohibit somebody from having several barrels of reserve fuel on board? I see the obvious safety hazard, but I'm wondering if there are actually regulations against it.

Thanks,
Jim
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Old 19-10-2013, 05:11   #304
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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About those blue plastic drums full of gasoline on board that Viking....

I think that most blue plastic drums are UN 1A1 rated containers & I've seen flammable liquids shipped in them before legally. I seem to remember that there is some rule that gasoline needs to be in a container that is either red, or has a red label. Assuming that this guy met those packaging regulations, are there other rules that prohibit somebody from having several barrels of reserve fuel on board? I see the obvious safety hazard, but I'm wondering if there are actually regulations against it.

Thanks,
Jim
In some places it depends on where you have it stored. In Florida, if you have gasoline stored in a compartment that does not meet USCG ventilation regulations they can confiscate your boat. For instance my boat has a propane locker on one side and a sealed locker on the other. Both have overboard drains and are completely sealed off from the interior of the boat. and the sealed locker has no source of ignition, but does not have the required number of square inches of ventilation. I like to keep spare dinghy gas in there as it keeps it out of the sun ind out of the way on the deck. It is of course stored ina standard red gasoline container. If I do that in Florida, technically they can confiscate my boat. The same would be true for a honda generator if it had gas in it.
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Old 19-10-2013, 05:27   #305
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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In some places it depends on where you have it stored. In Florida, if you have gasoline stored in a compartment that does not meet USCG ventilation regulations they can confiscate your boat. For instance my boat has a propane locker on one side and a sealed locker on the other. Both have overboard drains and are completely sealed off from the interior of the boat. and the sealed locker has no source of ignition, but does not have the required number of square inches of ventilation. I like to keep spare dinghy gas in there as it keeps it out of the sun ind out of the way on the deck. It is of course stored ina standard red gasoline container. If I do that in Florida, technically they can confiscate my boat. The same would be true for a honda generator if it had gas in it.
They can declare your voyage "manifestly unsafe" and direct you to tie up till the condition is rectified...no they can't "confiscate your boat"...

If they can..please point me to ONE reference that says they can....never in my USCG career or post career association have I heard they have that power.
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Old 19-10-2013, 07:05   #306
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

By the way the below link is a quite good and readable document of the USCG requirements . . . http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/...ations/420.PDF
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Old 19-10-2013, 08:00   #307
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

"I would guess the local coasties on a boat ignored a 65' Viking because that usually spells "MONEY" and money often files complaints with the politicians they regularly donate money to. Ratty old small craft are simply lower hanging less risky fruit. But let's face it, it doesn't matter if the operator came from Mars. AS responsible operator with a big expensive boat WOULD make a point to know the local buoyage and regs before casting off. Maybe he was just funning you by asking which side the bouys should be on.<G>"

This wasn't a normal 65' Viking so I don't think money was a factor in that aspect. He paid $65K for it at auction because it had been sunk once already in Sandy. Word was he bought it to restore and flip. As for the funning us by asking about the reds he ( the captain not the owner ) was dead serious. He was from Florida and was not familiar with the area. To top it off, they left last night at 9 o'clock to go down the ICW in the dark, with no local knowledge, no chartplotter and no anchor. This is with two outboards that had just spent 4 days underwater. The fuel drums, which did have a red painted stripe on them, were still not lashed down. They did however have a paper chart and a spotlight! If he makes it to Florida, the folks here will be amazed...
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Old 19-10-2013, 10:22   #308
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

FWIW,

In an unfamiliar system of waterways, knowing which direction is considered to be seaward is not always obvious. Hence, the query re which side to leave the red buoys on may not be so stupid as some have thought.

I'm not familiar with the waters in question, but in Oz I know of at least one place where the buoyage changes "hands" rather unexpectedly. (near Karagara Island in the Broadwater area south of Moreton Bay). If one isn't looking at a chart at the appropriate time an inadvertent grounding can result (don't ask how we know...)!

Having said that, the Floridian skipper under discussion sounds kinda risky...

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 19-10-2013, 10:38   #309
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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They can declare your voyage "manifestly unsafe" and direct you to tie up till the condition is rectified...no they can't "confiscate your boat"...

If they can..please point me to ONE reference that says they can....never in my USCG career or post career association have I heard they have that power.
Florida statute 327.66. Read and be shocked
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Old 19-10-2013, 10:54   #310
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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Florida statute 327.66. Read and be shocked
Wow...I apologize...

I don't think the USCG can enforce that statute..

And I think Florida has lost it's mind if they are going to seize a persons valuable boat or "home" for some minor infraction involving the storage of gasoline...calling the whole thing "contraband" sounds really iffy to me...

But it's pretty much in black and white from that link... so again...I apologize...it just sounds too far fetched to be happening on a regular basis without public outcry.
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Old 19-10-2013, 11:31   #311
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

Crazy!

But at least they give foreign visitors a break...
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(5) Foreign flagged vessels entering United States waters and waters of this state in compliance with 19 U.S.C. s. 1433 are exempt from this section.
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Old 19-10-2013, 11:40   #312
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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FWIW,

In an unfamiliar system of waterways, knowing which direction is considered to be seaward is not always obvious. Hence, the query re which side to leave the red buoys on may not be so stupid as some have thought.
I concur. Red Right Return doesn't work so well on the ICW. One needs to know if heading south is considered heading out to sea, or in to harbor. For a first timer on that waterway, it is a very good question to ask.

Reading charts also helps
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Old 19-10-2013, 15:17   #313
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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Wow...I apologize...

I don't think the USCG can enforce that statute..

And I think Florida has lost it's mind if they are going to seize a persons valuable boat or "home" for some minor infraction involving the storage of gasoline...calling the whole thing "contraband" sounds really iffy to me...

But it's pretty much in black and white from that link... so again...I apologize...it just sounds too far fetched to be happening on a regular basis without public outcry.
You're right the USCG doesn't enforce this statute, but everything that passes for a cop in Fl does. See 327.70. From most of the posts on this forum it would seem that Fl water cops are much more likely to cause you a problem than the USCG.

I don't think this is enforced often. I think it was passed to stop high speed boats from putting enough fuel below decks to get them from a mothership far off shore with a load of drugs. It is written so broadly that it could be used to abuse any boater that they chose to give a hard time for what ever reason.
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Old 19-10-2013, 16:30   #314
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The US regs suck, and I agree with a post above they embarrass me, and I wish I could have some way to change them, but I do not even know how or where they are formulated.

I will note that Australian authorities can be difficult. We got into trouble in Australia twice for (a) "not giving the 96 hour notice of arrival" - we got if on that because we in fact gave 69 day advance notice because our passage to Australia took 59 days at sea, but they told us that they judged that 69 day notice was "too speculative". And when we arrived in Hobart (b) for not properly notifing the authorities (in Hobart and along the south coast) that we had moved harbors. We got off that one because we actually had in writing from the Fremantle authorities that we did not need to check in as we sailed along the coast.

And in Europe the schengen treaty can be difficult to deal with.

So the US rules suck, but we do have good company.
The Schengen rules in practice are virtually overlooked for yacht crews not using airports. Furthermore the european treatment of cruisers in regards check in / out and monitoring are virtually the freest and most lenient in the known world.

The comparison is not valid. The US treatment of visiting cruisers stand out a mile in its severity, the unwillingness to use the visa waver programme , for example, is just Un-fathomable. ( and I get hassle every time I fly cause I'm from a visa waiver country with a B1 in my passport , they seem to think you have something dodgy and had to go through the visa programme to be allows visit. Explaining the yacht thing just brings up blank stares !!!


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Old 19-10-2013, 16:54   #315
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Re: Boarded by the Coast Guard..Terminated Voyage

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You're right the USCG doesn't enforce this statute, but everything that passes for a cop in Fl does. See 327.70. From most of the posts on this forum it would seem that Fl water cops are much more likely to cause you a problem than the USCG.

I don't think this is enforced often. I think it was passed to stop high speed boats from putting enough fuel below decks to get them from a mothership far off shore with a load of drugs.
It is written so broadly that it could be used to abuse any boater that they chose to give a hard time for what ever reason.
I think you are right.

I met a guy that said he fished way out. Saw his 55 gal drums. He said he went way out, fished, refueled and returned. He dumped the drums. Catch was Square Grouper I'm sure.
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