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Old 30-12-2006, 19:39   #16
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a sailing vessel
lucky this is what i am building then althought the writing is probably on the wall fro these as well like i said its the slow boiled frog approach
sean
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Old 30-12-2006, 19:41   #17
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i wonder if the dinghy tender i built is exempt from this then
Sean and Tania Building a dingy
i intend to power it with oars and gasp a 4hp motor
sean
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Old 30-12-2006, 19:45   #18
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out of curioustity does your boat need one dave, after all theres obviously from discusioins held previously no sign of a mast, unless of course you plan to put up a small dinghy one for appearance sake
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Old 30-12-2006, 19:50   #19
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Originally Posted by northerncat
a sailing vessel
lucky this is what i am building then althought the writing is probably on the wall fro these as well like i said its the slow boiled frog approach
sean
But are you not also a recreational vessel ?

And here is the sailing vessel definition

a sailing vessel, being a vessel that has sail as the primary means of propulsion, with or without an auxiliary means of mechanical propulsion,
(For a sailing vessel to be considered as a vessel “primarily” propelled by sail, there is no conclusive test and includes the intention of the owner. However, if all of the following are answered by “yes”, then the vessel probably is of a type that is propelled “primarily” by sail:
  • Is the vessel fitted with a sail rig (mast, stays, shrouds, halyards, sheets, cleats and/or winches) that extends from stem to stern?
  • Does the sail area alone exceed the profile area of the hull and deck-mounted structures (excluding the sails)?
  • Is the vessel hull fitted with a keel that extends below the mechanical propulsor?
  • Does the design and construction standard used to design the vessel define the vessel as a sailing vessel? ISO 12217 for sailing craft defines a sailing vessel as one where the sail area in square metres is more than 0.07 times the fully loaded mass (displacement) in kilograms raised to the power of two-thirds)
That red one leaves a lot of dagger board boats out.

But at the end of the day this is the bit that get's us of the hook.

a vessel that had reached a stage of construction before 2 September 2006 where the keel was laid, or where:
  • the vessel was identifiable as a vessel of a particular type, and
  • a part of the vessel had been fabricated and assembled that had a mass of at least one per cent of the mass of all structural material of the proposed completed vessel.
Dave
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Old 30-12-2006, 20:06   #20
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haha so i guess then this is the last motor/sailer that you will build for yourself then
sean
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Old 30-12-2006, 20:40   #21
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haha so i guess then this is the last motor/sailer that you will build for yourself then
sean
If wanker's in office's that wouldn't know the pointy end of a boat from the blunt end keep making stupid bloody rules up for revinue raising instead of better boating, yes.

In Australia that is.

The next one I'll employ a flock of guy's oversea's. May even get the finishing touches to this one done outside OZ.

Dave
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Old 30-12-2006, 21:55   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cat man do
But are you not also a recreational vessel ?

And here is the sailing vessel definition

a sailing vessel, being a vessel that has sail as the primary means of propulsion, with or without an auxiliary means of mechanical propulsion,
(For a sailing vessel to be considered as a vessel “primarily” propelled by sail, there is no conclusive test and includes the intention of the owner. However, if all of the following are answered by “yes”, then the vessel probably is of a type that is propelled “primarily” by sail:
  • Is the vessel fitted with a sail rig (mast, stays, shrouds, halyards, sheets, cleats and/or winches) that extends from stem to stern?
  • Does the sail area alone exceed the profile area of the hull and deck-mounted structures (excluding the sails)?
  • Is the vessel hull fitted with a keel that extends below the mechanical propulsor?
  • Does the design and construction standard used to design the vessel define the vessel as a sailing vessel? ISO 12217 for sailing craft defines a sailing vessel as one where the sail area in square metres is more than 0.07 times the fully loaded mass (displacement) in kilograms raised to the power of two-thirds)
That red one leaves a lot of dagger board boats out.

Dave
If the daggerboard is down it's ok though. Sean, your dinghy should be OK as long as you don't want to register it. I am toying with the idea of building a dinghy too, but something like a 12 foot planing cat, power around 15hp. And I want to register it. Which means it needs an ABP, unless I can convince them it's been lying around in my shed for years.... Hmm I'm sure I bought at least 1% of the materials ages ago.....

As for the customs stuff, I guess it's all a matter of them getting the balance right. We do need some system to protect our fisheries from foreign diseases, as long as it's enforced properly - the big ships need to be compliant as well as the individual sailors. It's often the individual who gets nailed by these types of laws, being easier targets.
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Old 30-12-2006, 22:14   #23
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i didnt know daggerboards were keels, i thought there were keels, centreboards and daggerboards but the only one called a keel was in fact a keel 8-)
sean
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Old 31-12-2006, 03:59   #24
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The customs stuff was all I was talking about.All that red tape s**t is found in every application,so I guess ya just suck it up and deal with what ya have to,It's not just confined to boating.Don't get me wrong,deep down I'm ant-establishment allways have been,It's just not the first time the powers that be see revenue and go for it,and it wont be the last.But then again this thread wasn't started on that summise, if I recall rightly,It was about a warning if you are comming to Australia,or leaving, that some things have changed in regards to check in/out proccedures.So maybe if we heard from the people who have got "Criminal records against them" for a lapse in proccedure on their behalf might be more enlightning to the thread.Whether you fly in or sail in to OZ,it is your responsability to abide by the rules and moreso to have up to date infomation supplied by the appropriate departments.And that is somthing that is allways being voiced on this site and others to sailors.Happy newyear everywhere.Mudnut.
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Old 31-12-2006, 11:20   #25
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Wasn't it Oz that made a larger ruckus 5-10 years ago by announcing they'd seize and impound any yachts not properly fitted for sea? Which included any visitors arriving without life rafts?

Seems like your politicians need something better to do. I'm trying to convince ours to broker a 3-way deal: Cede Iraq to China, in return for a promise of oil shares, so the Chinese can then send all Iraqi insurgents to the organ banks. And in return, China only has to promise the US that they'll respect Taiwanese soveriengty. A win-win deal for everyone, including the insurgents who are so intent on meeting their maker.
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Old 31-12-2006, 15:22   #26
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I like your thinking Hellosailor very similar to my cousin's solution to the homeless and hungry solution. Feed the homeless to the hungry. Very much to the point.
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Old 31-12-2006, 18:15   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor
Wasn't it Oz that made a larger ruckus 5-10 years ago by announcing they'd seize and impound any yachts not properly fitted for sea? Which included any visitors arriving without life rafts?

Seems like your politicians need something better to do. I'm trying to convince ours to broker a 3-way deal: Cede Iraq to China, in return for a promise of oil shares, so the Chinese can then send all Iraqi insurgents to the organ banks. And in return, China only has to promise the US that they'll respect Taiwanese soveriengty. A win-win deal for everyone, including the insurgents who are so intent on meeting their maker.
It was NZ, not Aus. They used to end up with situations where the dept of immigration were ordering cruisers to leave because their visa's were up, but the transport dept wouldn't let them because their boat was "unseaworthy" (even though some of them had travelled 1/2 way round the world to get there).

The Iraq to China idea is brilliant though.
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Old 05-01-2007, 14:50   #28
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Try Importing Your American Yacht Into Oz

As I'm learning, there is no end to the red tape. Customs & Quarantine initially board the vessel and take all of your food while lifting cushions and poking around in the bilge. Then you get your cruising permit. Then the fun begins.

To import your vessel and not pay the 5% customs duty (AUSTFA exclusion for American goods), you have to prove that over 50% of your boat was built of American originated components. Do you know where your fiberglass came from? How about the oil that was used to make the resin? You get the picture.

The customs agent I'm dealing with wants a letter from the manufacturer to that effect, though my builder was a victim of Reagan's 10% luxury tax and went out of business in 1990-91. The attitude seems to be that they'll make it so difficult to comply that you will just fork over the cash to be rid of them. If anyone else is having (or has had) experiences with American yacht importation please contact me, as I am building a case for BIA in order to make future yachtie's experiences less painful.

I'll do another section on QUARANTINE!!!!!!
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Old 05-01-2007, 19:11   #29
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Yeap it was NZ with that stupid rule about visiting boats. It is pretty much disregarded now but still law. It has been used once or twice for some real stupid people but a general crusier is fine.

Having just liberated a vessel and crew from the 'dark side' or the West Island I can agree with the watch out for the Aussie Customs. They were damn good to us and came down to the Gold coast from Brizzy to clear us but while they were doing it they had a call saying thay just nabbed 2 incomers from Indonesia who did not do the 96hrs thing.

Us kiwis had a giggle about that only to find 8 days later NZ has a similar rule but 48hrs instead. I've been in and out many many times and did not know about this just as most others I've mentioned it to don't. It has been around for a long while they tell me but they have just started to enforce it. We got a bit of a grilling and asked why we did not fax or email our arrival. They seemed to struggle to understand most cruisers can not do that even if they knew the bloody rules. "Why did you not ring us then?" which the reply was "we would have IF we knew, had sat phones (don't have) and all the phone numbers were not 'business hours only' ". Bit of a wierd one all round really.

The real stupid bit was we have the NZ airforce overfly us 500mls out and asked who, what, where and when via VHF. The same again to a light aircraft coming around Nth Cape (in real crap weather as well, would not like to have been on that plane) and again to a bloody patrol boat when we entred the Bay of Islands. They knew exactly who, what and where before we even left Aussie waters. They did get very grumpy I landed at Opua (Bay of Is) instead of Auckland as I told them on 1st contact. "No fuel and a big southerly coming" I said "so get stuffed, lock me up". I had the feeling they thought hard about actually doing it.

As for bringing no nasties to Aussie, what a bloody joke. In what country apart from OZ do you have so many nasty bitey things already? Seems if everything that moves wants to have a bite, string, jab or whatever at you, includes a few of the women as well . Mate.... they have mozzies that can carry off small children

I think the problem the average Aussie has, boaters included, is they have too many governments and people in them trying to justify their jobs. Each Aussie has about 5 governments if I do my clacs right. Local council, state lower house, state senate, federal lower house and then a federal senate as well. That's about a gazillion more than needed I'd say.

You don't need that many rule makers to keep your average Aussie happy, just make sure there is plenty of food for the barbie, a big pile of cold beers, a cricket match on the telly and most I know would be as happy as pigs in pooh

But watch that rule both in Aus and NZ they both seem to be enforcing it with vigour.
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Old 05-01-2007, 21:38   #30
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Gmac, just tell them that the purpose of your visit is military invasion and conquest and you are formally declaring them to be prisoners of war and relieving them of their weapons. Ask them to fill out an International Red Cross prisoner aid form and surrender peacefully.

Once you've done that, they have no jurisdiction, it's a military matter and you can always sue for peace, aka The Mouse That Roared.
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