Australian Registered Ship

[Wanderlust]

Have I got this right? You purchased the vessel in Greece (not Australain registered), then changed its name, then registered it with AMSA?

If that's the case, then AMSA would have asked for evidence of your ownership entitlement before registering it in your name. Obviously they were satisfied with the documentation you provided.

Although that should be all you need to prove your ownership, a future buyer may like to see the paper trail from when you made the purchase. Presumably you have the Greek registration cancellation document. If you have nothing about the name change perhaps a statutory declaration stating the change of name, and referencing the HIN would complete the trail. As I understand it, neither would really be necessary but may add comfort factor for a potential buyer.

If in doubt, ask AMSA. I found them to be quite helpful in the past.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Ausluke

Thanks for the detailed reply,
Yeah the yacht has been registered with amsa, and all the markings have been done. My real concern was tieing the registration cert to the bill of sale. With nuthing at all tieing the two together when placed next to each other.

But if its just the rego cert they are after everything has been done correctly in relation to the boat as per the marking note. Wich i suppose everything has to have been done right to obtain a rego cert in the first place. ( just wasnt sure if forgein authorities understoon without everthing been done correctly no rego cert would be produced.

I just though a HIN would be on the rego cert. so anyone looking at it could see, he boat name was changed but it is still the same hull ( as the bill of sale )

Disclaimer - I ain't no maritime lawyer, just a boatie with a little bit of international experience.

You pretty much got it right.

The ship's registration certification is the go to piece of paper. It's takes legal precedence as proof of ownership. There will be a paper trail of who owns the 64 shares of the boat from when it was first placed on some national register somewhere in the world. For fun, just try to correct some minor typo in the registration paperwork process - it can't be done after registration is granted without a court order.

The bill of sale is simply a one time contract between buyer and seller, it in and by itself doesn't constitute ownership although it is a good starting point.

If your boat matches the marking note and has registration certificate, everyone will be happy.

[Ausluke]

Perfect thanks for the reply's. Answered all my questions.

One minor issue, you mabe able to comment on. On the australian rego cert, their is one minor typo! After thoroughly referencing all te paper work it turns out the engine serial number has been printed as an S when it should be a 5.

Can you see any huge issues with this? I cant, its very hard to even pick up. Although as you say being such important paper work should i look to have ths am-mended? Court order gee that sounds easy haha.

[Wotname]

^^ let sleeping dogs lie...

That would be my approach - if someone notices, then gee wiz, I never noticed that - thanks for picking it up, I'll get right onto it!

[daletournier]

Never once had a problem.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by Wotname

First up, let's clarify some terminology to make sure we are understanding everything we are saying.

It gets confusing (in Australia at least) as the vessel be STATE registered anytime it is in Australian waters for 90 days or so (except in the NT) and the state will issue a registration certificate for the state. This usually (always?) includes the HIN. The name is not important and you can change the name as often as you wish - as far as state registration goes. The ON does not appear on state records.

Dunno about this.

When I Australian registered my previous vessel I took the trouble to research the shipping registration convention Australia was a party to and it disallows registration in two states. Presumably this is to ensure that a vessel has only a single unique identity.

When I Australian registered my boat the cover letter I received with the documentation cautioned me that I must properly maintain the unique identifiers ie. the name, home port and LOA and ON and that the vessel must only be referred to using the official identity.

I have not read any but the Queensland and Commonwealth legislation but they appear to attempt to apply all sorts of convoluted/suggestive/equivocal language in an attempt to allow the States to extort their pound of flesh in the way of registration fees.

I suspect that if one had a couple of hundred thousand dollars to take a case to the High Court of Australia one might find that in placing any of the State registration identifiers on the vessel (they don't have any taxing powers and since the overt reason for State registration is to enable to allow the vessel to be identifiable) one was committing the offence of applying two identities to a vessel in conflict with the international convention the Commonwealth is party to.

It worked in the Tasmanian Dams case.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Dunno about this.

When I Australian registered my previous vessel I took the trouble to research the shipping registration convention Australia was a party to and it disallows registration in two states. Presumably this is to ensure that a vessel has only a single unique identity.

When I Australian registered my boat the cover letter I received with the documentation cautioned me that I must properly maintain the unique identifiers ie. the name, home port and LOA and ON and that the vessel must only be referred to using the official identity.

I have not read any but the Queensland and Commonwealth legislation but they appear to attempt to apply all sorts of convoluted/suggestive/equivocal language in an attempt to allow the States to extort their pound of flesh in the way of registration fees.

I suspect that if one had a couple of hundred thousand dollars to take a case to the High Court of Australia one might find that in placing any of the State registration identifiers on the vessel (they don't have any taxing powers and since the overt reason for State registration is to enable to allow the vessel to be identifiable) one was committing the offence of applying two identities to a vessel in conflict with the international convention the Commonwealth is party to.

It worked in the Tasmanian Dams case.

One thing for sure, the courts could eat up those "couple of hundred thousand dollars" pretty darn quick and then string you out to bleed you dry of dollars.

I can think of few arguments that counter your proposed points but the principle one is that the state is not taxing you with a yearly boat registration fees, they are simply making you pay for services rendered

However regardless of the merits of your case, I have a far better use of your couple of hundred thousand dollars; I have a great little bridge you must see and I could properly throw in one of the smaller of those Tassie dams.

PM me for details

[Simi 60]

Starting to think about this.
If I plan on leaving Australia but not coming back in due to vessel being timber, do I need to get her Australian registered?

Ex fishing vessel with numbers and length carved into deck beam below but have found nothing online on the ships register

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Starting to think about this.
If I plan on leaving Australia but not coming back in due to vessel being timber, do I need to get her Australian registered?

Ex fishing vessel with numbers and length carved into deck beam below but have found nothing online on the ships register

Going on memory - yes.

I think the wording is something like "departing Australia for a foreign port" or similar. Where you end up is immaterial - I think...

[Fore and Aft]

Simi 60, drop us line when you abandoned your boat overseas because it is timber.....I will buy it of you for a $1 LOL
Cheers

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Going on memory - yes.

I think the wording is something like "departing Australia for a foreign port" or similar. Where you end up is immaterial - I think...

Oh I've seen it said but it seems a monumental amount of effort and rapeage in fees so I can get a rubber stamp in Darwin and never use the registration again.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

Simi 60, drop us line when you abandoned your boat overseas because it is timber.....I will buy it of you for a $1 LOL
Cheers

Its Australia I'll be abandoning, not the boat.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Oh I've seen it said but it seems a monumental amount of effort and rapeage in fees so I can get a rubber stamp in Darwin and never use the registration again.

Border Farce will NOT let you leave Australia in an unregistered vessel!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Dunno about this.

When I Australian registered my previous vessel I took the trouble to research the shipping registration convention Australia was a party to and it disallows registration in two states. Presumably this is to ensure that a vessel has only a single unique identity.

Don't get confused between:

"state" as in to international agreements, where it essentially means an independent country
and
"state" as in the Australian Federation.

They are two totally different concepts.

Being on the Ships Register gives your boat "Australian Nationality"
Being registered in a state allows you to operate your vessel iin that state.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by StuM

Border Farce will NOT let you leave Australia in an unregistered vessel!

It must be a new rule because I have taken a few boats out of Australia never to return that didn't have Australian registration .