Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 26-01-2018, 16:53   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
Wanderlust's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NSW Central Coast
Boat: Lagoon 410
Posts: 509
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Have I got this right? You purchased the vessel in Greece (not Australain registered), then changed its name, then registered it with AMSA?

If that's the case, then AMSA would have asked for evidence of your ownership entitlement before registering it in your name. Obviously they were satisfied with the documentation you provided.

Although that should be all you need to prove your ownership, a future buyer may like to see the paper trail from when you made the purchase. Presumably you have the Greek registration cancellation document. If you have nothing about the name change perhaps a statutory declaration stating the change of name, and referencing the HIN would complete the trail. As I understand it, neither would really be necessary but may add comfort factor for a potential buyer.

If in doubt, ask AMSA. I found them to be quite helpful in the past.
__________________

__________________
Steve
Wanderlust is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2018, 17:07   #17
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 8,420
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausluke View Post
Thanks for the detailed reply,
Yeah the yacht has been registered with amsa, and all the markings have been done. My real concern was tieing the registration cert to the bill of sale. With nuthing at all tieing the two together when placed next to each other.

But if its just the rego cert they are after everything has been done correctly in relation to the boat as per the marking note. Wich i suppose everything has to have been done right to obtain a rego cert in the first place. ( just wasnt sure if forgein authorities understoon without everthing been done correctly no rego cert would be produced.

I just though a HIN would be on the rego cert. so anyone looking at it could see, he boat name was changed but it is still the same hull ( as the bill of sale )
Disclaimer - I ain't no maritime lawyer, just a boatie with a little bit of international experience.

You pretty much got it right.

The ship's registration certification is the go to piece of paper. It's takes legal precedence as proof of ownership. There will be a paper trail of who owns the 64 shares of the boat from when it was first placed on some national register somewhere in the world. For fun, just try to correct some minor typo in the registration paperwork process - it can't be done after registration is granted without a court order.

The bill of sale is simply a one time contract between buyer and seller, it in and by itself doesn't constitute ownership although it is a good starting point.

If your boat matches the marking note and has registration certificate, everyone will be happy.
__________________

__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2018, 17:27   #18
Registered User
 
Ausluke's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Ionion ,greece
Boat: 2005, Dufour 38.5
Posts: 73
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Perfect thanks for the reply's. Answered all my questions.

One minor issue, you mabe able to comment on. On the australian rego cert, their is one minor typo! After thoroughly referencing all te paper work it turns out the engine serial number has been printed as an S when it should be a 5.

Can you see any huge issues with this? I cant, its very hard to even pick up. Although as you say being such important paper work should i look to have ths am-mended? Court order gee that sounds easy haha.
Ausluke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-01-2018, 18:11   #19
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 8,420
Re: Australian Registered Ship

^^ let sleeping dogs lie...

That would be my approach - if someone notices, then gee wiz, I never noticed that - thanks for picking it up, I'll get right onto it!
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 27-01-2018, 00:02   #20
Registered User
 
daletournier's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Seychelles
Boat: Catalina 470
Posts: 2,759
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Never once had a problem.
daletournier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2018, 02:03   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 1,947
Images: 7
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
First up, let's clarify some terminology to make sure we are understanding everything we are saying.

It gets confusing (in Australia at least) as the vessel be STATE registered anytime it is in Australian waters for 90 days or so (except in the NT) and the state will issue a registration certificate for the state. This usually (always?) includes the HIN. The name is not important and you can change the name as often as you wish - as far as state registration goes. The ON does not appear on state records.
Dunno about this.

When I Australian registered my previous vessel I took the trouble to research the shipping registration convention Australia was a party to and it disallows registration in two states. Presumably this is to ensure that a vessel has only a single unique identity.

When I Australian registered my boat the cover letter I received with the documentation cautioned me that I must properly maintain the unique identifiers ie. the name, home port and LOA and ON and that the vessel must only be referred to using the official identity.

I have not read any but the Queensland and Commonwealth legislation but they appear to attempt to apply all sorts of convoluted/suggestive/equivocal language in an attempt to allow the States to extort their pound of flesh in the way of registration fees.

I suspect that if one had a couple of hundred thousand dollars to take a case to the High Court of Australia one might find that in placing any of the State registration identifiers on the vessel (they don't have any taxing powers and since the overt reason for State registration is to enable to allow the vessel to be identifiable) one was committing the offence of applying two identities to a vessel in conflict with the international convention the Commonwealth is party to.

It worked in the Tasmanian Dams case.
RaymondR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2018, 22:21   #22
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 8,420
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
Dunno about this.

When I Australian registered my previous vessel I took the trouble to research the shipping registration convention Australia was a party to and it disallows registration in two states. Presumably this is to ensure that a vessel has only a single unique identity.

When I Australian registered my boat the cover letter I received with the documentation cautioned me that I must properly maintain the unique identifiers ie. the name, home port and LOA and ON and that the vessel must only be referred to using the official identity.

I have not read any but the Queensland and Commonwealth legislation but they appear to attempt to apply all sorts of convoluted/suggestive/equivocal language in an attempt to allow the States to extort their pound of flesh in the way of registration fees.

I suspect that if one had a couple of hundred thousand dollars to take a case to the High Court of Australia one might find that in placing any of the State registration identifiers on the vessel (they don't have any taxing powers and since the overt reason for State registration is to enable to allow the vessel to be identifiable) one was committing the offence of applying two identities to a vessel in conflict with the international convention the Commonwealth is party to.

It worked in the Tasmanian Dams case.


One thing for sure, the courts could eat up those "couple of hundred thousand dollars" pretty darn quick and then string you out to bleed you dry of dollars.

I can think of few arguments that counter your proposed points but the principle one is that the state is not taxing you with a yearly boat registration fees, they are simply making you pay for services rendered

However regardless of the merits of your case, I have a far better use of your couple of hundred thousand dollars; I have a great little bridge you must see and I could properly throw in one of the smaller of those Tassie dams.

PM me for details
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2018, 01:13   #23
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 954
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Starting to think about this.
If I plan on leaving Australia but not coming back in due to vessel being timber, do I need to get her Australian registered?

Ex fishing vessel with numbers and length carved into deck beam below but have found nothing online on the ships register
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2018, 01:38   #24
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 8,420
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Starting to think about this.
If I plan on leaving Australia but not coming back in due to vessel being timber, do I need to get her Australian registered?

Ex fishing vessel with numbers and length carved into deck beam below but have found nothing online on the ships register
Going on memory - yes.

I think the wording is something like "departing Australia for a foreign port" or similar. Where you end up is immaterial - I think...
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2018, 01:41   #25
Registered User
 
Fore and Aft's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Gympie
Boat: Volkscruiser
Posts: 311
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Simi 60, drop us line when you abandoned your boat overseas because it is timber.....I will buy it of you for a $1 LOL
Cheers
Fore and Aft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2018, 02:03   #26
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 954
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname View Post
Going on memory - yes.

I think the wording is something like "departing Australia for a foreign port" or similar. Where you end up is immaterial - I think...
Oh I've seen it said but it seems a monumental amount of effort and rapeage in fees so I can get a rubber stamp in Darwin and never use the registration again.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2018, 02:04   #27
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 954
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fore and Aft View Post
Simi 60, drop us line when you abandoned your boat overseas because it is timber.....I will buy it of you for a $1 LOL
Cheers
Its Australia I'll be abandoning, not the boat.
Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2018, 15:12   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 7,816
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
Oh I've seen it said but it seems a monumental amount of effort and rapeage in fees so I can get a rubber stamp in Darwin and never use the registration again.
Border Farce will NOT let you leave Australia in an unregistered vessel!
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2018, 15:20   #29
Senior Cruiser
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43
Posts: 7,816
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
Dunno about this.

When I Australian registered my previous vessel I took the trouble to research the shipping registration convention Australia was a party to and it disallows registration in two states. Presumably this is to ensure that a vessel has only a single unique identity.
Don't get confused between:

"state" as in to international agreements, where it essentially means an independent country
and
"state" as in the Australian Federation.

They are two totally different concepts.

Being on the Ships Register gives your boat "Australian Nationality"
Being registered in a state allows you to operate your vessel iin that state.
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-03-2018, 21:07   #30
Registered User
 
Simi 60's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Milkraft 60 ex trawler
Posts: 954
Re: Australian Registered Ship

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Border Farce will NOT let you leave Australia in an unregistered vessel!
It must be a new rule because I have taken a few boats out of Australia never to return that didn't have Australian registration .
__________________

Simi 60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Australia

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Australian Resident Importing Australian Reg Boat garrytas Boat Ownership & Making a Living 24 06-03-2014 04:18
Australian registered yachts using British Berths Long term Reinhardt Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 18 12-01-2014 14:46
Where to moor Australian registered yacht near Australia Kojiro Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 14 25-12-2012 04:52
AMSA Registered Ship GILow Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 17 20-12-2012 15:58
Australian Ship Registration Wojo Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 3 14-06-2008 07:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:28.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.