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Old 25-08-2014, 06:24   #16
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
The marina I stay at rules say above a Cat III storm, you have to vacate, but I've had several outhouse lawyers tell me that they can't legally make you go, which is it, I assume they in fact can make you leave, even if you have no where to go?
Just a guess - I don't think you could be forced out INTO danger, but in most situations there are options, like someplace to anchor, or to haul out.

This thread underscores that you alone are responsible for your boat, and that you can't force that responsibility onto others or put them at risk, eg marinas.

Back to the OP - your friend should get insurance, or needs to budget for other measures, like a haulout, for the few bad storms that come along.
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Old 25-08-2014, 06:40   #17
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

Excerpted from The 2014 Florida Statutes:

“327.59 Marina evacuations.—(1) After June 1, 1994, marinas may not adopt, maintain, or enforce policies pertaining to evacuation of vessels which require vessels to be removed from marinas following the issuance of a hurricane watch or warning, in order to ensure that protecting the lives and safety of vessel owners is placed before interests of protecting property ...”

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

This doesn't appear to restrict marina operators' right to deny entry.
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Old 25-08-2014, 06:43   #18
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
The marina I stay at rules say above a Cat III storm, you have to vacate, but I've had several outhouse lawyers tell me that they can't legally make you go, which is it, I assume they in fact can make you leave, even if you have no where to go?
Read my post above.
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Old 25-08-2014, 07:04   #19
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

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.... marinas may not adopt, maintain, or enforce policies pertaining to evacuation of vessels which require vessels to be removed from marinas following the issuance of a hurricane watch or warning, in order to ensure that protecting the lives and safety of vessel owners is placed before interests of protecting property ...


This doesn't appear to restrict marina operators' right to deny entry.
Common Decency and the law seem to both agree that human lives trump property rights.

In a named storm....If not allowed to dock.... Anchor off and challenge them to remove you
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Old 25-08-2014, 07:39   #20
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

As to the insurance on a boat over ten years old if you do not have other property like a house and land to add the boat to the Insurance policy it is sometimes difficult to obtain. Example: I was insured and ended up in the hospital for 30 days. My insurance lapsed. The insurance co. then required another full survey. This meant haul out and surveyor = $2000.00 after already being hit hard financially. I could not do this for a while and was glad that hurricane season was several months away. My Liability insurance cost me $900.00/year because I am a liveaboard.
I expect that many people who choose to live on their boats and cruise can't get insurance or paid the high premiums required. I know many with jobs and money are going to say then they shouldn't be on a boat but the problem is insurance companies are ripping the American public off. Take New Hampshire; insurance auto and boat not required so to insure a car up there cost maybe 400.00 to 800.00 for a new car. Florida and CT where insurance is required by law is two to three times that amount. Every time insurance is required law the insurance companies rip you off. The same is true about any thing that is required by law. They will F you.
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Old 25-08-2014, 08:13   #21
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
The marina I stay at rules say above a Cat III storm, you have to vacate, but I've had several outhouse lawyers tell me that they can't legally make you go, which is it, I assume they in fact can make you leave, even if you have no where to go?
Most also have clauses stating what they'll do if you fail to leave. With some it's just tie you best as they can and charge you for anything they do. With others it's remove you from the water and charge you. No, they can't make you leave without a court order. They can hold you responsible for any costs and damages resulting from your failure to leave.
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Old 25-08-2014, 08:17   #22
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

As to the boater who chose to have no liability insurance, if I owned a marina I would not let him dock. If I had a boat at a marina, I would have recourse against the marina if they let him dock in violation of their published rules. Pull the boat to shore somewhere. It's not the marina's responsibility to make up for your failure to prepare. If a life was at stake they'd do what necessary, but to save or protect a boat, no.

And signing that you'd take responsibility does nothing for them except give them a better case in court. Doubt the owner had the resources to cover major damage if he didn't even have the resources to have liability insurance.

Marinas are fully entitled to have rules. In this case, this is fairly standard and seems reasonable to me.
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Old 25-08-2014, 08:19   #23
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

I guess forums like this save us from having to pay actual lawyers for legal advice.
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Old 25-08-2014, 08:41   #24
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

I have a hunch that the laws of safe harbor generally pre-date insurance for the average sailor of years gone by.

I also wonder if ... once you've actually ENTERED a marina AFTER a storm has been determined to be a valid risk, if THEN, the private marina owner has no right to refuse you shelter to protect life.

But most boats in a storm are not there to protect life and most boats needing shelter, could actually seek shelter without their boats(leave the boats on hook).

So, what extends the right to self-preservation(life), to the welfare of the boat(an inanimate "thing"), ... especially in a private marina?

Even if a person/family, got their boat into a marina. Would they seriously expect to stay in the boat, or go farther inland for protection ... abandoning the boat, so to speak.

I also agree that if a storm were to hit a marina directly(or nearly so), I would not want to be in that marina.
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Old 25-08-2014, 09:04   #25
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

IIRC, the phrase is "Any port in a storm." Not harbor, which could possibly be misinterpreted to mean "marina."

Taking a hundred year old saying (which to me means getting the boat/ship off the open ocean into a protected natural harbor, not necessarily with docks) and applying it to a modern day potential application with a full service marina just before and/or during a hurricane, just doesn't make any sense.

Further exacerbated by adding "private" marinas, which should be able to make rules as they see fit (within reason).

Almost all of the BoatUS reports on hurricane-followups have indicated that, as many have said, marinas are among the worst places to be.
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Old 25-08-2014, 09:05   #26
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

Forced to buy insurance eh. Where have we heard THAT before?
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Old 25-08-2014, 09:10   #27
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

I suspect some of the clauses that state you must leave are there to establish who is responsible for damage resulting from a storm.

If they say that they don't want you there and your boat takes out a dock or other structure, they have a claim against you and your insurance (assuming you have some which they also typically require).

If they don't clarify that you aren't supposed to be at thier dock, the boat owner could claim that the docks were substandard and should have held up better and protected thier boat.

Odds are they won't actually kick you out if there is danger but anything they do after telling you they don't want you there will come with a large bill.
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Old 25-08-2014, 09:15   #28
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

My insurance does not pay for damages incurred in a named storm. Talk about a ripoff! Is this typical?
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Old 25-08-2014, 09:23   #29
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

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My insurance does not pay for damages incurred in a named storm. Talk about a ripoff! Is this typical?
With insurance you get what you pay for. You might want to shop for a better policy (and expect to pay more for it).

Some insurance policies will pay a percentage of the cost for a haulout in the case of named storms.
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Old 25-08-2014, 16:30   #30
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Re: Are there any laws that state a vessel can take refuse in a Marina for a storm?

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My insurance does not pay for damages incurred in a named storm. Talk about a ripoff! Is this typical?

Not really...for a liveaboard like me if it keeps my premiums down and I take it upon myself to vacate a named storm area rather than the knuckleheads that think their boat will be safe on land or anywhere's near a landfall...then good for the insurance company.

they took a hit for the last...who knows how many ....years during hurricanes where many boaters just said to themselves..."it's insured and I'd like a XXX anyhow" and wouldn't even go down and double up lines, etc....


as long as your insurance co. can hold down premiums by making people take more vigorous action to save their property...then that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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