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Old 07-05-2014, 21:04   #91
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Re: Anybody fight CA over hailing port/Tax BS?

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Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
Wa state is entirely different. I asked to register a boat there and they would not do it unless the boat was actually in the state. What does CA law state? Can they tax you for a boat that is not in the state?
I mean.... in theory they could just start sending tax bills to everyone who has a boat registered in the country asking all to prove they are somewhere else...?
Don't give them any more ideas.

Back in 1989, I wrote the CA DMV telling them I was moving to HI and taking both of my cars.

They sent registration renewals to my HI address, expecting me to pay CA registration on cars with HI plates!!

Their insane greed and gall knows no bounds. They thrive on people who would rather knuckle under and pay than stand up for their rights.

When I returned in 1994, they tried to charge me a $600 "welcome to CA" emissions fee on my Mustang. I did some digging, and it turns out that Honolulu Ford purchased the car from Fomoco in San Francisco before it was shipped to HI, making CA the state of record for the sale of the car! I had to take it to the supervisor, but they finally admitted that they could not charge the $600 on a vehicle originally sold in CA.

I have nothing but the utmost disdain for every bureaucracy in this screwed up state.
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Old 07-05-2014, 21:44   #92
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

I think people seem to miss the fact that I've already talked to them twice AND filled out their stupid form "under penalty of perjury"

that's 3X more effort than I should have to go to to "prove my innocence"
But still not good enough for these Dbags

A lot of people also talk about the law being the law; but the thing is I've yet to see anything remotely related to actual law; A FAQ that states that a middle bureaucracy datamines USCG to go after citizens way outside their jurisdiction may be "the way it is" but how can it possibly be legal to go after a person and put a presumption of guilt on them?

It's true that they are not mind readers; they asked me and I've answered them three times they just don't like the answer and expect me to back up my answer with proof and I just don't really think thats how a republic works

It's "great" that they've come up with these one sided rules that benefit only them; but surely there is one sentence in an actual Law somewhere that justifies it? I missed the mandatory nap time at the local pre-school today too; because those rules do not apply to me; at all
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Old 07-05-2014, 22:07   #93
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

What did they not like about what you sent them? What more are they looking for?

Maybe send them the next info they are looking for and at the same time send all the paperwork they have sent you, plus everything you have sent them to the CA attorney general?
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Old 07-05-2014, 23:20   #94
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

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Originally Posted by JayCall View Post
SNIP

For Xymotic-as to whether CA has any "legal" right to use the USCG database, of course it does, if nothing else, it is a public record available to everyone.

SNIP
No issue with CA using the USCG DB. Problem is I could come up with some questions in an interrogatory that might be at least embarrassing for them to answer.

It is fairly easy to establish that even if the spirit of the law is that the hailing port should at least have some connection to reality the USCG also requires documentation to include the owners address. The owners address has an absolute connection to reality and messing that up has serious implications.

So why is CA putting so much weight on the hailing port and so little weight on the owner's address. As a rule I never ascribe to malice what could easily be explained by stupidity; but courts are not always so inclined.
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Old 07-05-2014, 23:53   #95
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

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So why is CA putting so much weight on the hailing port and so little weight on the owner's address.
In California anyway, the property tax for the boat is calculated and paid in the county that the boat is located, not where the owner of the boat is located. Many times they are not the same.

Of course the answer is, never use a California hailing port if the boat is not based in California.

BTW, if you have a California drivers license and say cruise another state for a year or two, the FTB (state income tax folks) will be looking for their pound of flesh too. Delightful folks....
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Old 08-05-2014, 00:04   #96
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

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In California anyway, the property tax for the boat is calculated and paid in the county that the boat is located, not where the owner of the boat is located. Many times they are not the same.

Of course the answer is, never use a California hailing port if the boat is not based in California.

BTW, if you have a California drivers license and say cruise another state for a year or two, the FTB (state income tax folks) will be looking for their pound of flesh too. Delightful folks....
My point was the owners address in the USCG DB is better evidence in the court's eyes than the hailing port since the owner's address has to be accurate and the hailing port can be made up.

If you have a CA DL the assumption is that you are a CA resident and subject to their income tax code. Same for folks who are US citizens and work overseas.

Not saying I like these tax codes, just that I am aware of them.

On the upside courts tend to expect tax collectors to use the best possible information which in the OP's case seems to be his mailing address in WA not his hailing port address in CA.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:04   #97
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

Shhhhhh! Be Berry Berrrry Quiatt! CoweefornYa is huntin waskally wabbits and we're the wabbits!

Earlier in the week I got a voice mail from a CBOE official in Sacremento. To be honest he seemed like a perfectly nice person and so I'd intended to just call him back and politely explain the situation to him (again) but when I got his voice mail and started calmly explaining that their $5k tax on a 6k boat with no relationship to CA my blood started boiling

I don't remember exactly what I left on his VM but I know that I explained the terms and conditions of our relationship going forward would be that they agree to pay me $1000 every time they contact me; and that they could accept these terms and conditions by simply contacting me again - Oh and I know I also said: "California can Suck-it"

So you know; I kept it pretty profesional

Well anyway; much to my surprise he actually had the nerve to call me back today and he started of by saying: "Soooooo I've read (this thread)" and Capitain 58 gave the best advice and he asked if I just had a bill of sale and could send it to them and this can just go away" That threw me for a bit of a loop because I for sure didn't mention this place to him though I may have said 'google Oceana" and see for yourself so I guess that's one for Google (or NSA/California interagency data-mining over-reach depending on how paranoid you wanna be I guess)

I said well "of course" I "could" do that but why the hell should I explain to a nigerian prince why I don't owe him any money!?

He said "well I am not a Prince from Nigeria"

A bold claim to be sure but I am still unconvinced! (these scammers can be pretty elaborate and clever dontcha know!)


And he said it was 'normal' for hailing port to be the home port of boats and lots of people live in the midwest and keep their boats in Florida or California which is all certainly true.

It's also true that it's perfectly 'normal' for people to have a boat in Washington state and name their boat for sentimental reasons having nothing to do with the physical location of the boat making what they are doing totally a stretch

He said he was just a bureaucrat doing his job and like I said he was nice enough; I mean I'm sure Hermann Göring family loved him too; right? And that his hands were tied by the Legislature limiting what he was able to do

SO that's when I got a bit riled up again and told him I flat out didn't believe him; I again explained that there was zero requirement for the hailing port to be related to a boats location; that I didn't think there was any California law that gave them the authority to presume people guilty and violate the US Constitution's Search and Seizure provisions AND even if there were the California Legislature had zero jurisdiction to regulate a Washington transaction or a resident of Washington State

His exact reply was "Well; there are Nexus Issues"
Which set my BS detector alarm right to volume: "eleven" and we all know Eleven is WAY louder than 10!

He said he'd email me the relevant chapters or agreements we shall see about that

He also offered to call marinas on my behalf and get the records which I think he thinks is above and beyond the call of duty; I think it's a waste of time and not gonna bother wasting MY time doing it - I couldn't remember the name of the marina the boat was kept when I first bought it though but he said he'd call Port of Olympia for corroborating evidence

So to be continued I guess

And to California; Ahhhhh What's up Doc? I think he went thatta way ->
And it was Swantown Marina in Olympia
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:11   #98
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

Ahhh...the Famous word "Nexus"

But WA State isn't any better amigo. They tried to get us to charge and collect the WA State sales tax on orders we ship to WA...ha ha ha ...we have no offices, etc in WA...but since we do the Seattle Boat show once a year for 10 days...well they say that is a Nexus! Sorry WA...good try...our attorney kicked their ass on that one and Yes it felt good...but it did cost me $4500 in attorney fees!
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:12   #99
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

Why not just provide him with the bill of sale?

I guess at this point you are just trying to prove a point, but the fact is the point isn't going to be made at the appropriate level and isn't going to change anything. You are just causing yourself more aggravation than you need to.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:59   #100
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

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Why not just provide him with the bill of sale?

I guess at this point you are just trying to prove a point, but the fact is the point isn't going to be made at the appropriate level and isn't going to change anything. You are just causing yourself more aggravation than you need to.


Well; I WOULD have if the first person I talked to hadn't been such a see you next tuesday on the phone

She Flat out called me a liar and told me I was "required by Law" yadda yadda yadda

You are right about the point not being made at the right level (of course) whoever wrote their "proposed tax liability" letter was an evil genius; because that thing was a work of frikken art

but I also firmly believe that they only reason we have to deal with crap like this from AT&T or Comcast or whatever every damned day is because they count on and rely upon the public choosing not to fight back.

And I'm not going to be part of the problem and propagate that crap; people are all pissed off at NSA snooping on US citizens but have no Problem with California sneaking around and accusing/threatening random people of tax evasion

I have no problem being the outlier that shows up at the bottom of this guy's quarterly progress report. Eventually when there are enough of us they will change their policies but regardless the "I was just following orders" excuse doesn't go far with me; It's just wrong and I'm not going to ignore that I know it's wrong and go along with it because that would make me a hypocrite.
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Old 08-05-2014, 13:18   #101
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

Well, this thread has a longer life span than I would have expected. Straining at gnats and swallowing camels. If you would have expended 1/3 of the energy resolving this issue with CA as has been expended here on this thread (including my posts), the thing would have already been laid to rest. Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's. Yes I get the whole "it's the principle thing." I personally have too much to do and too little time to do it in, to spend my time fighting city hall, but hey, it's your life, you can choose how you spend the unknown quantity of it left, on a pissing contest with some govt. drone that could care less one way or the other. Peace Brother, I wish you well on your quest. I think, I'll go read Don Quixote in the original spanish version.
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Old 08-05-2014, 13:34   #102
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

Well worth reading the other 100 posts just to be reminded of "What's Opera, Doc?"

Thanks for that! Kill da Wabbit!
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Old 08-05-2014, 13:45   #103
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

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On the upside courts tend to expect tax collectors to use the best possible information which in the OP's case seems to be his mailing address in WA not his hailing port address in CA.
I HOPE you are right


In reality the Tax collector uses everything that can remotely/possibly be spun in their favor while simultaneously disregarding what you ACTUALLY TELL THEM despite it being obviously true and after forcing you to have sworn to it under penalty of perjury.
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Old 08-05-2014, 13:48   #104
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

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I HOPE you are right.
We have all seen how well that "Hope and Change" thing worked out...Don't bring "Hope" with you into a Tax Court...you had better bring your Tax Attorney.
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Old 08-05-2014, 13:53   #105
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Re: Anybody Fight CA over Hailing Port/Tax BS?

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Well, this thread has a longer life span than I would have expected. Straining at gnats and swallowing camels. If you would have expended 1/3 of the energy resolving this issue with CA as has been expended here on this thread (including my posts), the thing would have already been laid to rest. Render unto Ceasar what is Caesar's. Yes I get the whole "it's the principle thing." I personally have too much to do and too little time to do it in, to spend my time fighting city hall, but hey, it's your life, you can choose how you spend the unknown quantity of it left, on a pissing contest with some govt. drone that could care less one way or the other. Peace Brother, I wish you well on your quest. I think, I'll go read Don Quixote in the original spanish version.
hehe you are totally right and I too have too much to do as well but... it's raining and I'm lazy and bitching about it on the computer is more fun that welding out in the rain (or copying or mailing stupid docs to people I despise to make 'their' stupid job 'easier')

And part of it too is an immature schadenfreude thing; I "like" being a pain in their ass so for me this is a way better use of time Well 'better' is not the right word but you get the idea
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