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BandB · 10-05-2014, 12:06

Xymotic:

Are you really enjoying putting yourself through all this? Is it worth it? Perhaps to you it is.

Sorry, but I don't like drama and conflict that much and I personally would just send them whatever documents and proof it took to make them happy and be done with it.

And when I say "putting yourself through all this" that is what I meant. Yes, they are the originators of the situation. But it's your choice of how long it drags out and how much of your time and energy it takes.

I respect you and your battle on what you perceive as principle. But I just prefer personally to resolve situations rather than prolong them, even when it's all the other person's fault. I fully know in the next six months, I'm going to have to explain and produce documentation to Washington, Alaska, Canada, California and probably a few more jurisdictions, all of whom would like to charge me taxes or fees or both. In my ideal world there would be one set of documents and no need to repeat and it would be clear it's a Documented boat, also registered in Florida and just passing through these other areas. But instead I am carrying many copies of all documents aboard and updating the log and the documents with each stop. And I will say "Yes Sir" many times along the way.

Oh and for the record, if I'm driving my car and get stopped, even if I did nothing wrong, I still say "Yes, Sir" and am very nice to the patrolman. He both has the power and the gun at that moment in time. Yes, we did once get stopped because a car identical to my wife's which we were in had just been stolen. Yes, he could have just run the plate and never needed to stop us. But we showed him registration, insurance, and license and we were soon on our way. Oh, and he never apologized for stopping us or coming to the door with his gun drawn. He felt he was doing his job. I felt he was a macho idiot. But I took the path that ended things as quickly as possible so we could continue on our way. Meanwhile as we drove, my wife called and complained to his superiors and suggested better training and judgement, not expecting anything to happen, but she had the time while we rode along. Not sure his supervisor grasped that you don't just look at blue Porsche but there are license plates and they are there as a purpose so you can know specifically. We just laughed and didn't let it ruin our trip.

Guess after many years in the business world, I'm use to proving not guilty. Every time the company I worked for purchased another we had to file documents within 10 days proving we were not violating the antitrust acts and were not gaining a monopoly. It didn't work for us to wait for them to prove something.

I dislike bureaucracy, especially when it's completely misguided. But I live with it, because on the list of world problems it's far down my list of dislikes. You make it sound like California has no reason to even bring this up. Let's see, just from what you've disclosed, we know. Hailing port, California. One time home of boat, California. One time home for you, California. Place you often travel, California. Now clearly none of that leads to you owing California, but it sure leads to enough for a guy sitting in an office to have an obligation to his employer, the state of California, to check it out.

I had to show this morning to a representative of the state of Washington prove the boat hadn't been here 60 days. Sure it won't be the last time. And the Florida sticker on the side in no way proves it. My wife even laughed and told him he could check us again as we'd be there on July 26. That got his attention. She giggled then and told him that we'd have proof then we'd been in Alaska and were just reentering from Canada.

These are just people trying to do their job as we all do. Do I think they always do it well or right? No. But they're human and humans screw a lot of things up, many far worse.

In one way there's a plus side for all of us that you're not just submitting what it takes to satisfy them. We have this story to follow. We can look forward to more installments. Already up to 12 pages and 180 posts and more to come.

xymotic · 10-05-2014, 13:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

Xymotic:

Are you really enjoying putting yourself through all this? Is it worth it? Perhaps to you it is.

Sorry, but I don't like drama and conflict that much and I personally would just send them whatever documents and proof it took to make them happy and be done with it.

And when I say "putting yourself through all this" that is what I meant. Yes, they are the originators of the situation. But it's your choice of how long it drags out and how much of your time and energy it takes.

I respect you and your battle on what you perceive as principle. But I just prefer personally to resolve situations rather than prolong them, even when it's all the other person's fault. I fully know in the next six months, I'm going to have to explain and produce documentation to Washington, Alaska, Canada, California and probably a few more jurisdictions, all of whom would like to charge me taxes or fees or both. In my ideal world there would be one set of documents and no need to repeat and it would be clear it's a Documented boat, also registered in Florida and just passing through these other areas. But instead I am carrying many copies of all documents aboard and updating the log and the documents with each stop. And I will say "Yes Sir" many times along the way.

Oh and for the record, if I'm driving my car and get stopped, even if I did nothing wrong, I still say "Yes, Sir" and am very nice to the patrolman. He both has the power and the gun at that moment in time. Yes, we did once get stopped because a car identical to my wife's which we were in had just been stolen. Yes, he could have just run the plate and never needed to stop us. But we showed him registration, insurance, and license and we were soon on our way. Oh, and he never apologized for stopping us or coming to the door with his gun drawn. He felt he was doing his job. I felt he was a macho idiot. But I took the path that ended things as quickly as possible so we could continue on our way. Meanwhile as we drove, my wife called and complained to his superiors and suggested better training and judgement, not expecting anything to happen, but she had the time while we rode along. Not sure his supervisor grasped that you don't just look at blue Porsche but there are license plates and they are there as a purpose so you can know specifically. We just laughed and didn't let it ruin our trip.

Guess after many years in the business world, I'm use to proving not guilty. Every time the company I worked for purchased another we had to file documents within 10 days proving we were not violating the antitrust acts and were not gaining a monopoly. It didn't work for us to wait for them to prove something.

I dislike bureaucracy, especially when it's completely misguided. But I live with it, because on the list of world problems it's far down my list of dislikes. You make it sound like California has no reason to even bring this up. Let's see, just from what you've disclosed, we know. Hailing port, California. One time home of boat, California. One time home for you, California. Place you often travel, California. Now clearly none of that leads to you owing California, but it sure leads to enough for a guy sitting in an office to have an obligation to his employer, the state of California, to check it out.

I had to show this morning to a representative of the state of Washington prove the boat hadn't been here 60 days. Sure it won't be the last time. And the Florida sticker on the side in no way proves it. My wife even laughed and told him he could check us again as we'd be there on July 26. That got his attention. She giggled then and told him that we'd have proof then we'd been in Alaska and were just reentering from Canada.

These are just people trying to do their job as we all do. Do I think they always do it well or right? No. But they're human and humans screw a lot of things up, many far worse.

In one way there's a plus side for all of us that you're not just submitting what it takes to satisfy them. We have this story to follow. We can look forward to more installments. Already up to 12 pages and 180 posts and more to come.

A small part; the grown-up part probably about 3% of my brain knows that of course you are right

The other part; the neener neener part though

I really can't explain it except to say that I feel strongly that allowing someone to do something like this is becoming part of and contributing to the downfall of civilization.

I consider myself extremely open minded and can easily change my point of view if someone gives me a compelling argument; but "take it or it'll get worse" pushes all of my buttons PARTICULARLY when it's the misbehaving person that's telling me to do it As the BOE did yesterday "can't you just do what we want"

Yep I could do that I just think it would be 'wrong" and I try not to live life doing things I know are wrong

but yeah I know you are also right

Jammer Six · 10-05-2014, 13:51

If it weren't for the neener-neener part, I would be in charge, and you would all be working for me.

BandB · 10-05-2014, 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by xymotic

A small part; the grown-up part probably about 3% of my brain knows that of course you are right

The other part; the neener neener part though

I really can't explain it except to say that I feel strongly that allowing someone to do something like this is becoming part of and contributing to the downfall of civilization.

I consider myself extremely open minded and can easily change my point of view if someone gives me a compelling argument; but "take it or it'll get worse" pushes all of my buttons PARTICULARLY when it's the misbehaving person that's telling me to do it As the BOE did yesterday "can't you just do what we want"

Yep I could do that I just think it would be 'wrong" and I try not to live life doing things I know are wrong

but yeah I know you are also right

Well, at least you admit it. You know what you're doing and why and have a part that says "whoa stop it" even if the rest of you can't.

We all have our hot buttons. It's like me around some of my relatives who just push me to the edge with some of their attitudes and I know I can't change them. Right before I lose it, my wife says, "We need to get on the road, baby. We have a long drive still." Fortunately, we're able to leave it with me going no further than to say, "I don't share your views" and not telling them how truly deplorable and disgusting I find some of their views. Fortunately my wife serves as my heat sensor and the buzzer goes off just in time.

dohenyboy · 10-05-2014, 14:26

QUOTE: I remember co-workers being chased by CA for 'value on stock options'. The options were granted while they resided in CA, but exercised while living in another state. CA claimed the options gained value while they lived in CA, hence they owed CA tax. This is pure BS, as stock option grants are of zero value until exercised....
END QUOTE

Actually, stock options, including out-of-the-money options, do have an intrinsic value and are required to be valued under Accounting Standards Codification 718 using the Black-Scholes model. Just wanted to point that out. In addition, in-the-money options have an obvious value-the excess of the fair market value over the strike price. As a result of ASC 718, issuing companies are required to expense stock options upon issuance (that is, deduct the value from their profits) and further required to update this valuation every quarter. So the value of a stock option could very well increase (or decrease) over time.

As far as the California personal property tax assessment goes, its an unsecured tax. There is no lien on the vessel and since it is not registered through the California DMV. the state has no way of enforcing collection unless the OP has a tax refund or such coming from the state. Yes it will be on the credit report.

The OP's attitude is understandable, but not rational. As a former California resident, I have been through this.Fortunately California is asking for this proof now and not 8 years from now, when you might not have it available any more. Yes, it does happen!
Pick your battles

socaldmax · 10-05-2014, 14:52

Thank God that all of these voices of reason weren't around 238 yrs ago.

Instead, a brave group of people with a lot at stake and a great deal of intestinal fortitude decided to change things for the better. Deep down, I wonder if it will ever happen again, or if we will all just meekly get herded into the chutes for shearing and slaughter.

BandB · 10-05-2014, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Thank God that all of these voices of reason weren't around 238 yrs ago.

Instead, a brave group of people with a lot at stake and a great deal of intestinal fortitude decided to change things for the better. Deep down, I wonder if it will ever happen again, or if we will all just meekly get herded into the chutes for shearing and slaughter.

Or maybe things would have been worked out without a war, through negotiation? Now we'll never know, will we.......

Canada had no revolution and appears to be doing ok. Just saying.

xymotic · 10-05-2014, 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

Canada had no revolution and appears to be doing ok. Just saying.

England got punched in the face and changed their tune towards the rest of the empire too (the white parts anyway) "just sayin"

Stu Jackson · 10-05-2014, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

Or maybe things would have been worked out without a war, through negotiation? Now we'll never know, will we.......

Canada had no revolution and appears to be doing ok. Just saying.

But, but, but...sputter, huh? Last I looked, Canada is still part of the Commonwealth. BIG difference. BIG.

Look, if you go back to the very first page of this topic, you'll see I felt he should just put up & shut up.

But I read the whole thing all the way through, and read his responses, which were very helpful, and indicated, while late, but quite clearly, that he DID DO what they wanted him to do and they kept hounding him.

I just don't understand why people hook into these conversations without reading the whole thing, but that may simply be the way of the internet webbie tubie thingie.

And then they pull the stunt about sending him an email form to snail mail back to them so they can email him.

Absolute nonsense.

And those who keep misquoting the documentation regulations are almost hilarious. Almost...

Good luck to xym...

socaldmax · 10-05-2014, 15:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by BandB

Or maybe things would have been worked out without a war, through negotiation? Now we'll never know, will we.......

Canada had no revolution and appears to be doing ok. Just saying.

BWHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You left out the laughing smiley...

BandB · 10-05-2014, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

But, but, but...sputter, huh? Last I looked, Canada is still part of the Commonwealth. BIG difference. BIG.

But I read the whole thing all the way through, and read his responses, which were very helpful, and indicated, while late, but quite clearly, that he DID DO what they wanted him to do and they kept hounding him.

I just don't understand why people hook into these conversations without reading the whole thing,

Good luck to xym...

Read the whole thing and watched it turn from simple paperwork to reliving the revolutionary war, mainly for entertainment purposes. But as to the Canada thing and part of the Commonwealth. In what way are the people there worse off for that today? Not saying the Revolutionary War was bad, just saying our neighbors to the North are doing pretty well.

Texas tried to be their own nation. So today they could possibly have been part of Mexico, an independent nation, or part of the US. We'll never know how two of those might have gone. History takes turns and we never know how things otherwise might have worked out.

Jammer Six · 10-05-2014, 15:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by socaldmax

Instead, a brave group of people ...

You misspelled "desperate". You're talking about a group of rich white guys, some slave owners, who got chased out of where they used to live, and were right up against the wall again, only this time they had an ocean to help them.