Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-09-2014, 09:46   #1
Registered User
 
s/vAngel's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Florida
Boat: Bayfield29, 31loa bowsprit
Posts: 61
Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Is there any legitimate excuse for an FWC boat to operate at night in a completely blacked out mode, not just occasionally, but ALL THE TIME in Key West Harbor?
I've been asking around and searching for laws or legal reasons: I.e., apprehending a known criminal. However, these cop boats in this area operate at night, unlit, all the time. And all I've seen them do is sneak up on unsuspecting dinghies and fishing boats. Unlit, they STALK civilian boats (illegal in Florida unless officer is actually snagging an identified criminal) all the time.
This black out tactic almost got a fishing boat's crew killed- they were operating legally, brightly lit, at night and were on plane down a wide open channel. They nearly hit the unseen cop boat!
I'm not a lawyer and am seeking some straight answers. So far, I haven't gotten any. Are there any LEOs on this site, what's your views?
Should I keep filming with my infrared cameras? (Withou t interfering of course!) Do the local boaters here just continue to allow their rights to be infringed? It's just so irksome to sit back and witness this nonstop and it's only getting worse. What if a fishing boat does smash into an unlit cop boat? Who's going to be blamed- the civilians most likely.
__________________

__________________
s/vAngel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 10:10   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Homosassa, FL USA
Boat: Macgregor 25
Posts: 32
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

You are on to the right answer. Get a LARGE boat and hit them 'by accident' at top speed.
__________________

__________________
ianjoub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 11:13   #3
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

I was in key west back in the 80's when the local water nazis used to harass the liveaboards. One tactic was for them to hang around waiting for a liveaboard to row to the simonton street beach. Halfway in they would race up to the dink at high speed and wake the dinghy so badly some would turn over. Supposedly they were coming to check for life jackets. I heard, but dont know personally, that a stop was put to that when one liveaboard drowned.
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 11:52   #4
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Why would the FWC running around at night without nav lights be any more legal than a highway patrol car driving on the highway at night with the cars lights off?
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 12:21   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 43 & S2 6.9
Posts: 963
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Share the videos - if nothing else, maybe it will draw some attention to the issue.
__________________
maytrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 12:43   #6
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,058
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
Why would the FWC running around at night without nav lights be any more legal than a highway patrol car driving on the highway at night with the cars lights off?
Or speeding, not that they would ever do that

It's quite difficult to get permission to fly a military aircraft at night lights off for training, NOTAMS issued, trail aircraft in formation with lights on etc.
I bet there isn't any allowance for an LEO in a boat to operate lights out.
__________________
a64pilot is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 12:57   #7
Registered User

Join Date: May 2008
Location: daytona beach florida
Boat: csy 37
Posts: 2,844
Images: 1
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

A couple of years ago we were doing the fort lauderdale to key west race. In the middle of a very dark night, 20 miles from key west sea buoy, a very bright searchlight was suddenly shone at us from seaward. The captain got his spotlight and pointed it back at the searchlight. It was a "cigarette" style speedboat, painted all black. He turned off his light and then we turned off ours and went back to race mode. We later learned that it was probably a DEA boat.
__________________
Take two at low eight
onestepcsy37 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 13:01   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jupiter FL
Boat: temporarily boatless...
Posts: 723
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I bet there isn't any allowance for an LEO in a boat to operate lights out.
They do it nonetheless. In my view, it all started with DHS (important note: I am NOT including the USCG here, although they are part of DHS. USCG are heroes as far as I am concerned). What a bunch of yahoos. I posted a story a few years ago about being surprised by a blacked out (and black) DHS boat and crew (dressed in black) while in a sailboat, under sail, about 14nm off of Ft Lauderdale, heading away from the US. I won't go into the details again, but they were real pricks. With local law enforcement now being given access to, if not being encouraged to access, surplus military equipment, it was only a matter of time before the locals thought it was too cool to leave it for just the feds. My guess is that there is some legality to operating without lights under certain circumstances for military and law enforcement, and probably even justification in some limited circumstances. But it wouldn't include a sailboat under sail heading away from the US with a family on board, and I would think it certainly doesn't include just being a bad ass because you can.

On the other hand, you have to be really, really, REALLY committed to the cause if you want to fight this kind of stupidity. They hold all the cards. Nothing new about tyranny.

Pete
__________________
pete33458 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 14:52   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
bletso's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Louisville, KY
Boat: Globe, cutter/ketch,38
Posts: 546
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

They do it because they can with immunity. They can always come up with an excuse post event. Basically they are immature people who just haven't grown up yet, (No matter they years on the planet.)
__________________
www.sailboatvigah.com Boats don't like being neglected, but then neither do significant others!
bletso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 15:56   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 1,975
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

We have a giant budget for drug enforcement. Tax and legalize the stuff, let FBI and DoD deal with the left over thugs.I have seen the same antics in the PNW. Its a left over, utterly nonsense use of tax dollars. It will be hard to dismantle but could be shut down by (Con)gress but that would be (Pro)gress. Imagine that.
__________________
IdoraKeeper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 17:34   #11
Jd1
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Victoria, BC
Boat: Catalina 36 MKII
Posts: 1,096
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

I hope I am not giving them new ideas but this is what is happening on the roads:


http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/world/ameri...oney-1.2760736
__________________
Jd1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 18:07   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cambridge MD
Boat: Carter offshore 35
Posts: 333
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

How do you know who they are? Report them as a suspicious boat to the CG and let them intercept them. Could be terrorist or Haitians or Cubans trying to get into the country. Make the call on VHF and give their position so the drug runners know where they are then maybe they will turn on their lights and act like any good boater.
__________________
DeborahLee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 19:10   #13
Registered User
 
clownfishsydney's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Boat: Lightwave 38' Catamaran
Posts: 305
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

For those of who do not know, what is FWC? I gather F = Florida, but what is the rest of it?
__________________
Michael and Kelly
Catlypso - Web Site
Lightwave 38' cat
clownfishsydney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 19:42   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: West Indies
Boat: Burger 74' motor yacht, 65 foot 12 metre, Flicka and sailing dinghy
Posts: 635
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Its a hazard to navigation. When you see it, get on channel 16 and warn everyone about the apparently intoxicated boater who forgot to turn on his navigation lights. Maybe they are pirates or thieves. You don't KNOW who it is. Just make people aware of the danger. And if you think you saw them throw a corpse over the transom better report that too!
Maybe you can start a nightly discussion group to speculate who it is and the diminutive size of their . Of course not on channel 16.
__________________
dohenyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 19:51   #15
Senior Cruiser
 
DoubleWhisky's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home at Warsaw, Poland, boat in Eastern Med
Boat: Ocean Star 56.1 LR
Posts: 1,841
Re: Any Legitimate Reason for FWC to...

Quote:
Originally Posted by clownfishsydney View Post
For those of who do not know, what is FWC? I gather F = Florida, but what is the rest of it?

I guess - Water Cops???
__________________

__________________
DoubleWhisky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Legitimate Bluewater Question Kenomac General Sailing Forum 130 20-12-2014 10:16
Is this a Legitimate Technique for Using a Spinnaker? chris5977 Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 9 15-02-2013 23:23
'Sail Croatia' Legitimate ? simfr Europe & Mediterranean 7 03-03-2011 22:02



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:36.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.